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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 13:53:19 GMT
I don't care what kind of state he is in, but he doesn't know whether outer world exist. But Enigma claims that people who doesn't know outer world doesn't exist is not SR. So Enigma is saying that ZD is not SR. I knew the word 'state' was going to be a problem. Bad choice of words on my part. Reads to me like enigma is saying there is only the Self. So, therefore, the reality of the so-called duality is Unity. The Self. Appearance is essence, essence is appearance.  Enigma is saying that self is creating and perceiving, but ZD doesn't know whether he perceives by creating it or receiving it from objective outer world, so Enigma deemed ZD to be not an SR guy! |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 6, 2018 0:29:52 GMT
Hi gopal I've been reading zendancer for quite awhile now. I still feel his comment is more about living spontaneously. He's allowing himself to be in a state of openness. I don't care what kind of state he is in, but he doesn't know whether outer world exist. But Enigma claims that people who doesn't know outer world doesn't exist is not SR. So Enigma is saying that ZD is not SR. I never said that. There are SR peeps who don't know anything about it, don't know what happened, aren't holding some ideas about what the world is or isn't. ZD isn't one of those peeps, so his comment is a little odd, but you would be well advised to look at where ZD is continually pointing. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 6, 2018 0:31:04 GMT
Receives??  If there is an objective world, then you are receiving your perception through your eyes. OK |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 6, 2018 0:36:02 GMT
I don't care what kind of state he is in, but he doesn't know whether outer world exist. But Enigma claims that people who doesn't know outer world doesn't exist is not SR. So Enigma is saying that ZD is not SR. I knew the word 'state' was going to be a problem. Bad choice of words on my part. Reads to me like enigma is saying there is only the Self. So, therefore, the reality of the so-called duality is Unity. The Self. Appearance is essence, essence is appearance. I'm not sure what essence means to you. If it is meant to refer to that which is most fundamental as opposed to that which arises and falls, I would not equate essence with appearance. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 6, 2018 0:37:07 GMT
I knew the word 'state' was going to be a problem. Bad choice of words on my part. Reads to me like enigma is saying there is only the Self. So, therefore, the reality of the so-called duality is Unity. The Self. Appearance is essence, essence is appearance. Enigma is saying that self is creating and perceiving, but ZD doesn't know whether he perceives by creating it or receiving it from objective outer world, so Enigma deemed ZD to be not an SR guy! Again, have not said that. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 6, 2018 5:17:42 GMT
I'm not sure what essence means to you. If it is meant to refer to that which is most fundamental as opposed to that which arises and falls, I would not equate essence with appearance. Form/appearance is emptiness/essence, emptiness/essence is form/appearance. Oui? Non? (I have been known to be incorrect.  ) I don't think there's an incorrect here. I'm just saying it's not how I would use the terms. Essence means to point at the core of Being. Form means to point at the expression. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 6, 2018 20:10:06 GMT
What I mostly hear him saying there is that he goes along with the "experience of" inner/outer, and the experience of a 'world' that appears. He intimates though that he knows it's all empty when he says he just doesn't really care either way whether or not it 'exists'. Again....I think you have a very definite idea in mind when you speak of 'no outer world exists,' than what he was referencing. ultimately though, I might be wrong. IN general, I'm not all that jazzed about surmising what other folks mean....and on that note, am kind of wondering right now why I'm even responding to this. Nice post, figs. I agree, no sense in getting all wound up about anything. I guess in a way I was getting wound up about things yesterday with the tone of my posts. I’ve been out of sorts this week. A week ago I had a car-deer collision, and I’m still bummed out about it. Happened on a hill with a blind curve near the top. I was paying attention to the centerline on the blind curve because sometimes the oncoming traffic drives over the centerline in the middle of the road, and suddenly WHAMMO! Impact. But I saw nothing. Something compelled me to look out the sideview mirror, and there was the deer running across the road. He leapt over the guard rail on the other side of the road in a strange twisting way, and disappeared. The whole thing was so bizarre. I continued driving until I found a place to turn around, turned around, and drove back. Parked on the shoulder of the road about 100 feet from the guardrail. Walked toward the guardrail and looked down into the ravine. There it was, writhing in agony. I mean, FUCK! Ya know? Called Pat at home to let her know what happened, then called the Sheriff’s Dept. They sent out a deputy, and he took the deer out of its suffering with his service revolver. I mean, I felt like shit. Still do when the imagery reappears. So, Gopal, I apologize if my post exchanges with you had a shitty tone to them yesterday. I'm not making excuses. My heart is broken and I wasn't very kind. peace Oh man.....soooo sorry to hear....  |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 6, 2018 20:17:54 GMT
Enigma is saying that self is creating and perceiving, but ZD doesn't know whether he perceives by creating it or receiving it from objective outer world, so Enigma deemed ZD to be not an SR guy! Found it.... "Realization is simply coming to recognize first, that what you are is not a thing among things – as the “subject” you cannot be located in any terms the mind can come up with. The “subject” is never subject to objectification by any means – it has no attributes, no form – it is absolutely impossible to IDENTIFY the subject. But the mind cannot deal with mystery well – it must have something upon which to place thingness or objectivity upon the subject – therefore the body and thoughts are a poor substitute for what you are. We notice that the subject is outside the realm of the mind’s attempt at objectification. The subject is not a feeling, not a sensation, not perceived, not seen, felt, smelt, tasted, touched or heard. Yet at all times, it is perfectly present. The presence of the subject is obvious – to BE the subject means to know – to be aware of – aware of the object or experience. The subject can therefore be pointed to with the word “experiencing” – to be the true subject is to be the experiencing but there is nowhere to place the objective “experiencER”. No “thing” upon which to place independent existence. Experiencing is happening, obviously. The bell rings – experience. Experiencing OF the bell and the experience “bell”. Yet this distinction or separation is not ACTUAL – it is still the mind’s attempt to describe reality in terms of thingness – in terms of opposites – in terms it can grasp. There is no actual division between the experiencing “hearing” and the experience “ringing”. They are the exact same reality – the same IS-ness. They are not-two. So you are the subject, but the subject cannot be located as a thing. The subject is both presence and absence – always perfectly present yet absent of any content. Experience not only fills this absence, this capacity, it is in fact the very same “thing”. -Randall Friend You are That! Very nice. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 13:38:21 GMT
I don't care what kind of state he is in, but he doesn't know whether outer world exist. But Enigma claims that people who doesn't know outer world doesn't exist is not SR. So Enigma is saying that ZD is not SR. I never said that. There are SR peeps who don't know anything about it, don't know what happened, aren't holding some ideas about what the world is or isn't. ZD isn't one of those peeps, so his comment is a little odd, but you would be well advised to look at where ZD is continually pointing. A person who says I am a Self-Realized made me surprise while he proclaimed to say that he doesn't know whether perception is coming from outside or being created(by awareness). If he doesn't know whether it's coming from outside, he doesn't know whether he lives in his brain or not, eh? If he doesn't know whether outside world exist, then how does he knows everything is happening in consciousness? because he doesn't know whether he is receiving perception from outside. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 13:40:32 GMT
Enigma is saying that self is creating and perceiving, but ZD doesn't know whether he perceives by creating it or receiving it from objective outer world, so Enigma deemed ZD to be not an SR guy! Again, have not said that. You are saying that but you don't know that you are saying that If I do not know outside world exist, then how would I know everything is happening in consciousness? because I don't know whether I am receiving my perception through my physical eyes, when I do not whether I receive my perception through my eyes, how would I know I don't live inside the Brain? If so, how is he SR then? |
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