Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 18:17:24 GMT
If we were able to see the big picture, most likely the pine beetle was what restored balance. It also could be that man threw a monkey wrench in the works, which he is prone to do. Yeah, I thought the same... the only problem with the whole 'balance' deal vs. stuff that supposedly messes with it, is that the more expansive the view, you start to see that what may appear to be a 'monkey wrench' from a more contracted view, is actually part and parcel of what you are calling balance. No separation means that in the big picture, even seemingly, monkey-wrenching humans, are an integral part of 'balance.' Well, what we call the balance of nature is a functional balance. (i.e. a forest fire [or pine beetle?] clearing out old growth to make way for new.) The balance I'm talking about is personal and tied to the way the mind sets a reference for it's own experiences. In any event, it seems clear that man can and does disrupt the balance of nature as a whole in destructive ways, in much the same way that he disrupts the balance of his own body. Nature needs to be left alone to allow it's self supporting genius to function. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 18:20:03 GMT
Yes, physical death is the prize at the end of all paths, including the path of purification.  "The body is but the mill of sh*it. You may put any type of good food in it, and it only turns into sh*it. The body is thus only a sh*it-producing machine. The great wonder of this is that the same body is useful as an instrument for the realization of Brahman." Master of Self-Realization An Ultimate Understanding. Spiritual Discourses of His Holiness Shri Sadguru Siddharameshwar Maharaj Recorded by Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj Well, then I guess the question is what kind of shit does one want to produce on the path of purification? Joyous shit or sad crappy shit. Or maybe if one is on the direct path, they don't give a shit...  |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 18:37:39 GMT
If there is one thing I've learned in the last few years, is that 'enlightenment' takes such different form within the individual expression, that the concept is largely useless. Same applies to SR. How do we compare UG with Tolle, Byron Katie with Niz, Tony Parsons with Ramana? We have debated endlessly over who is enlightened (and there is irony in that obviously). Equally, in our own circle, how do we compare you and Reefs? Or Satch and Tenka? Or Enigma and Tzu Jan Li and Source? Or...well, you get the drift I'm sure. So the way I see it is that the idea of there being 'enlightenment' may only be of value to a certain kind of person. It is a sort of general term which may get people moving in the 'right' direction. But what is that right direction? Well, I would say it is all about purification, though there may come a point on the pathless path where one no longer feels moved to engage with that process, in a sense, purification happens organically. Equally there may come a point on the path where the purification is handled elegantly and gracefully so that it doesn't seem like there is a purification. The idea of 'purification' sounds somewhat effortful and noble, but it doesn't have to be like that. In my opinion, there is a collective purification happening which even the teachers and spiritually advanced are subject to. The final point of that process would be...no more collective illusion/falsity. The paradox of that is that purification can be seen to be part of the illusion/falsity, but as I see it, we don't transcend that illusion by denying it or standing outside of it, we transcend it by standing within it. Love this post Andrew. ....Yes, awakening to Oneness is just the beginning. I would say, the gate to 'purification' indeed begins with the realization that all is one, no fundamental separation, thus, no path or practice. But as I was talking about in my previous post, it's important to also see that the experiential is still very much relevant. Thus, I would say that the very first step into the direction of purification is the embracing of the fundamental Truth of Oneness in tandem with an embracing of the experiential. (This sounds like a no brainer...after all, if all is one...yada, yada, but i see some folks wanting to sort of exclude the experiential...we talked about that a time or two.  ) Eschewing the experiential in favor of the fundamental, (which manifests in insistence that there is no path, nothing to purify, etc.) is itself a temporary blockage to the unfolding process of purification. Yes I agree. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 18:39:49 GMT
Here's a weird thing. I had an aura photo taken in Byron Bay and it came out almost entirely green. I liked it a lot so kept it, put it in a box and forgot it. A few years later I was having a clear out, I looked at the photo and the colour had changed to gold. Like it had somehow updated itself. Cool. "updated itself," perfect term. I change the colors of my interior home every few years.....my 'favorite' colors have morphed over the years, and I've always found it interesting to observe a passion for a particular color or color scheme arise to the degree that I would just have to express that in my surroundings. Around 30 yrs. ago....my rooms were decorated in pastels...pinks, blues, mauves, lots of peach, with an urge a little later on to add a very particular shade of 'pucey' green....the next 'phase,' saw bright orangey red, lime green, deep purple, then, years later, mossy green, red, gold, and now, aqua green, turqoise, purples, mauves, blue...and still a little of that pucey shade of green...and just recently a bright shade of pink. Around the time the passion towards this new color phase started, I started (again) to see aura's quite clearly. I spotted my own as I looked in the mirror one day, against a white background; Not so suprisingly.....all the colors I was finding myself, presently so deeply attracted to. Haha, yes that might be how it works. That's some cool psychedelic interiors you have had over the years! |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 18:44:39 GMT
Am curious to hear opinions here; Was Niz's fatal cancer evidence of an absence of purification? He would have had far far less to purify than most other people in the world, so it would have to be a No. Though that's not to say that he had nothing left to purify. The tiny amount that he had to purify MAY be linked to the cancer, but humans are not meant to be fully purified yet. Maybe not ever. It was genuinely appropriate for him to have cancer and die. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 18:44:56 GMT
Only a sh!t producing machine??  ..That was the day he had a bad stomach flu. Oh, okay, he was going through a purification. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 18:48:11 GMT
Yes I have no problem talking about it in terms of frequency and vibration, but for me, a more generally relatable way to talk about this is in terms of intention. In one of Lynne McTaggart's books, I forget which, she talked about an experiment on plants. They recorded a bunch of plants micro responses. When one of the plants was attacked, they all responded in alarm. Interesting. Even more interesting is that when the guy faked an attack, the plants remained calm. They could read his intention.I see the purifying as a purification of intention. An obvious way to say this is to become genuinely more harmless. Pseudo harmlessness doesn't work. Then again, that's not to say that there is no place for force, and maybe even anger can come with a purity. I was having a bit of a rant to my kids the other day about swim pool safety, and mid rant a butterfly came and settled on my shoulder. Put me off my rant a bit he he. As an aside, but not totally irrelevant, the film Whiplash explores 'intention' well. It is kind of a movie about the zen stick, but in a different context. I can't help but wonder what the biological advantage would be of a plant being able to know your aggressive intention. I mean, it's not like they can run up a tree or sumthin. Lol good point. Trying to imagine plants fighting to hide behind each other! Maybe its not about biological advantage, maybe it is just a kind of automatic result of evolving to a certain point, part of having basic sentience. Kind of like...have to take the rough with the smooth. |
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 18:48:15 GMT
Am curious to hear opinions here; Was Niz's fatal cancer evidence of an absence of purification? He would have had far far less to purify than most other people in the world, so it would have to be a No. Though that's not to say that he had nothing left to purify. The tiny amount that he had to purify MAY be linked to the cancer, but humans are not meant to be fully purified yet. Maybe not ever. It was genuinely appropriate for him to have cancer and die. Why do you say that? |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 18:51:46 GMT
Interesting. Recently you rebutted the assertion that on some level, folks want to suffer. How is what you said here different from that..? Our 'brokenness' consists of patterns of thinking and behavior that were originally intended to protect oneself. (i.e. denial, projection, unconsciousness) There was never an intention to suffer, either then or now. The attempt to avoid suffering is what the clinging is all about, and ultimately the cause of suffering. In what way do peeps want to suffer? Yes, every problematic pattern has served us at one time. Which is part of why they are hard to let go of, in the releasing, it can connect us to the initial problem, whether it was a feeling of loneliness, or a fear of death, or a sense of abandonment or whatever. |
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 18:51:46 GMT
I can't help but wonder what the biological advantage would be of a plant being able to know your aggressive intention. I mean, it's not like they can run up a tree or sumthin. Lol good point. Trying to imagine plants fighting to hide behind each other! Maybe its not about biological advantage, maybe it is just a kind of automatic result of evolving to a certain point, part of having basic sentience. Kind of like...have to take the rough with the smooth. so in that way at least, plants are more evolved than humans?? I think we're missing something here. |
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