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Post by Figgles on Jul 10, 2017 9:12:01 GMT
E started a thread over on ST forum with the same title, and a really interesting conversation is unfolding...thought I'd try to continue it on over here.
AS much as it is said you cannot judge behaviors and circumstances to ascertain for certain whether one is enlightened or not, there are still mixed opinions & questions that arise for me, when a well accepted spiritual teacher/sage for example, develops a serious illness, or seemingly takes advantage sexually, of his students.
How does the idea of 'purification' enter in....are there degrees of 'enlightenment'....or perhaps depths of 'awakening' where for some it only goes so deep, whereas for others, it is more encompassing?..or are enlightenment and purification two distinct happenings?
Reefs on ST makes a distinction between SR and alignment....but if one has realized there is no separation, just how far 'out of alignment' can he ever actually get?
Thoughts...?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 9:26:52 GMT
So what's the causal/non causal argument? We say that SR is uncaused but what about purification which can be considered as a process in time. When a fruit ripens it is happening in time and can be observed and evaluated. Should spiritual ripening be treated any differently?
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 10, 2017 9:28:34 GMT
If there is one thing I've learned in the last few years, is that 'enlightenment' takes such different form within the individual expression, that the concept is largely useless. Same applies to SR. How do we compare UG with Tolle, Byron Katie with Niz, Tony Parsons with Ramana? We have debated endlessly over who is enlightened (and there is irony in that obviously). Equally, in our own circle, how do we compare you and Reefs? Or Satch and Tenka? Or Enigma and Tzu Jan Li and Source? Or...well, you get the drift I'm sure.
So the way I see it is that the idea of there being 'enlightenment' may only be of value to a certain kind of person. It is a sort of general term which may get people moving in the 'right' direction. But what is that right direction? Well, I would say it is all about purification, though there may come a point on the pathless path where one no longer feels moved to engage with that process, in a sense, purification happens organically. Equally there may come a point on the path where the purification is handled elegantly and gracefully so that it doesn't seem like there is a purification. The idea of 'purification' sounds somewhat effortful and noble, but it doesn't have to be like that.
In my opinion, there is a collective purification happening which even the teachers and spiritually advanced are subject to. The final point of that process would be...no more collective illusion/falsity. The paradox of that is that purification can be seen to be part of the illusion/falsity, but as I see it, we don't transcend that illusion by denying it or standing outside of it, we transcend it by standing within it.
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 10, 2017 9:32:51 GMT
Another representation of purity can be perceived through one's aura .
Peeps vibratory rate is expressed through one's energy field .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 9:32:55 GMT
If there is one thing I've learned in the last few years, is that 'enlightenment' takes such different form within the individual expression, that the concept is largely useless. Same applies to SR. How do we compare UG with Tolle, Byron Katie with Niz, Tony Parsons with Ramana? We have debated endlessly over who is enlightened (and there is irony in that obviously). Equally, in our own circle, how do we compare you and Reefs? Or Satch and Tenka? Or Enigma and Tzu Jan Li and Source? Or...well, you get the drift I'm sure. So the way I see it is that the idea of there being 'enlightenment' may only be of value to a certain kind of person. It is a sort of general term which may get people moving in the 'right' direction. But what is that right direction? Well, I would say it is all about purification, though there may come a point on the pathless path where one no longer feels moved to engage with that process, in a sense, purification happens organically. Equally there may cone a point on the path where the purification is handled elegantly and gracefully so that it doesn't seem like there is a purification. But in my opinion, there is a collective purification happening which even the teachers and spiritually advanced are subject to. The final point of that process would be...no more collective illusion/falsity. You make an excellent point that there isn't one single correct expression of awakening. The only correct expression of awakening is inexpressible. |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 10, 2017 9:36:31 GMT
Satch and Andrew....your posts dovetail together perfectly.......past my bedtime...will come back to this convo tomorrow!! Looking forward to it.
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 10, 2017 9:37:04 GMT
Another representation of purity can be perceived through one's aura . Peeps vibratory rate is expressed through one's energy field . Here's a weird thing. I had an aura photo taken in Byron Bay and it came out almost entirely green. I liked it a lot so kept it, put it in a box and forgot it. A few years later I was having a clear out, I looked at the photo and the colour had changed to gold. Like it had somehow updated itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 9:38:01 GMT
Another representation of purity can be perceived through one's aura . Peeps vibratory rate is expressed through one's energy field . I had one of those kirlian photographs taken of me years ago at the Mind & Body Festival in London. Do they still have those shows? I can't remember what my aura looked like though. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 10, 2017 9:39:31 GMT
Another representation of purity can be perceived through one's aura . Peeps vibratory rate is expressed through one's energy field . I had one of those kirlian photographs taken of me years ago at the Mind & Body Festival in London. Do they still have those shows? I can't remember what my aura looked like though. Haven't been to one in a while but pretty sure they do, yeah. |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 10, 2017 10:59:05 GMT
Another representation of purity can be perceived through one's aura . Peeps vibratory rate is expressed through one's energy field . Here's a weird thing. I had an aura photo taken in Byron Bay and it came out almost entirely green. I liked it a lot so kept it, put it in a box and forgot it. A few years later I was having a clear out, I looked at the photo and the colour had changed to gold. Like it had somehow updated itself.I am sure mainstream science won't agree with you on that score .  They are kinda cool though, I mean there are no two pics exactly a like . Each colour can represent a state of being / mind . Some aura's can change moment by moment, some stay similar depending on what is captured . I had one taken many years ago and it contained a lot of purple / violet with a white blob over my face . There where two streaks / columns of light either side of me and there was a distinct image of what looked like an egyptian cat coming over my head . This was at a similar time to when I was having memories of my pharaoh lifetime . Very cool indeed . Back to the subject of purity and frequencies / vibrations I think these energy capturing photo's can reflect / represent one's state of mind / being to some degree . Many mediums read the colours don't they and colours are just frequencies .. I mean the photo of a master with an open heart won't be similar to the dude that has just bashed up his wife . I associate a level of purity with one's energy signature / frequency / vibration . In terms of the Self realized the vibratory rate will be much higher than the selfish ignorant pig .. |
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