Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 18:53:33 GMT
So if your child was suffering from an incurable disease, you wouldn't want to change places with them? The strongest want in that case would be for my child 'not to' suffer with the disease. In changing places with them (if that could actually happen) I would be saying that my suffering is preferred to his suffering. So yes, I guess technically that specific example would fit the bill for one 'wanting' to suffer....but it is a pretty specialized situation. It is interesting indeed that you'd use that scenario. I wonder...Did you arrive at that out of thin air, or is it related to something I've shared previously? Yes sometimes there are things more important than our own personal suffering. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 19:02:50 GMT
Our 'brokenness' consists of patterns of thinking and behavior that were originally intended to protect oneself. (i.e. denial, projection, unconsciousness) There was never an intention to suffer, either then or now. The attempt to avoid suffering is what the clinging is all about, and ultimately the cause of suffering. In what way do peeps want to suffer? Yes, every problematic pattern has served us at one time. Which is part of why they are hard to let go of, in the releasing, it can connect us to the initial problem, whether it was a feeling of loneliness, or a fear of death, or a sense of abandonment or whatever. Yes, we're left to deal with the original problem that led to reaching for the crutch in the first place. Most often, from a conscious perspective, the crutch can be seen as a poor solution that didn't really solve anything. Sometimes it is a mind game, and once seen, it ceases to be effective. Sometimes the problem fades in the light of a more mature perspective. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 19:05:02 GMT
He would have had far far less to purify than most other people in the world, so it would have to be a No. Though that's not to say that he had nothing left to purify. The tiny amount that he had to purify MAY be linked to the cancer, but humans are not meant to be fully purified yet. Maybe not ever. It was genuinely appropriate for him to have cancer and die. Why do you say that? Well, I know we are not meant to be fully purified yet because I can look at the collective manifestations and see that we are not fully purified. To be fully purified in this context would not be possible or appropriate. In regard to Niz, he was obviously purified to a high extent, so could only have been walking the 'highest path'. So it is clear to me that he had therefore served his time, done what he needed to do, and it was appropriate to get the hell our of Dodge. In regard to death, if one is able to be self honest enough, they can look within and know if they have done all that they need to do. Of course consciously most people will say they want to live and they are not done, but our conditioning somewhat compels us to believe that. It's just not always true. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 19:11:53 GMT
Lol good point. Trying to imagine plants fighting to hide behind each other! Maybe its not about biological advantage, maybe it is just a kind of automatic result of evolving to a certain point, part of having basic sentience. Kind of like...have to take the rough with the smooth. so in that way at least, plants are more evolved than humans?? I think we're missing something here. Oh no, plants are compelled to react in that way. As humans, although our bodies constantly react to external stimulus just as plants do, because we have a more sophisticated mind (apparently), we are not 'compelled' the same way. For example, my instinctive spider reaction is negative, but if I really wanted to I could change that reaction. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 19:12:53 GMT
Yes, every problematic pattern has served us at one time. Which is part of why they are hard to let go of, in the releasing, it can connect us to the initial problem, whether it was a feeling of loneliness, or a fear of death, or a sense of abandonment or whatever. Yes, we're left to deal with the original problem that led to reaching for the crutch in the first place. Most often, from a conscious perspective, the crutch can be seen as a poor solution that didn't really solve anything. Sometimes it is a mind game, and once seen, it ceases to be effective. Sometimes the problem fades in the light of a more mature perspective. Yes exactly. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 19:55:53 GMT
Well, I know we are not meant to be fully purified yet because I can look at the collective manifestations and see that we are not fully purified. To be fully purified in this context would not be possible or appropriate. Mankind is not fully purified. That doesn't tell me it's not possible or appropriate. As for what we're meant to be, who is it who means for us to be some way? I don't know how purified Niz was. That's partly what's being discussed; how enlightenment relates to purification. The issue here is not whether it was time for him to die, but rather how he died. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 20:34:52 GMT
so in that way at least, plants are more evolved than humans?? I think we're missing something here. Oh no, plants are compelled to react in that way. As humans, although our bodies constantly react to external stimulus just as plants do, because we have a more sophisticated mind (apparently), we are not 'compelled' the same way. For example, my instinctive spider reaction is negative, but if I really wanted to I could change that reaction. Reacting to external stimulus or conditioning (with a mind) is not the same as picking up on an aggressive intention telepathically (without a mind). Not resonating here, like, at all. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 21:19:14 GMT
<div class="quote" author=" Enigma " source="/post/4975/thread" timestamp="1500062153"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-13" title="Enigma"><img src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/defaultavatar.png" alt="Enigma Avatar"></div></div><div class="quote_header"><a href="/post/4975/thread"><abbr class="o-timestamp time" title="Jul 14, 2017 20:55:53 GMT 1" data-timestamp="1500062153000">Jul 14, 2017 20:55:53 GMT 1</abbr></a> <span itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><a href="/user/13" class="user-link js-user-link user-13 group-0" itemprop="url" title=" Enigma "><span itemprop="name">Enigma</span></a></span> said:</div><div class="quote" source="/post/4970/thread" author=" Andrew " timestamp="1500059102"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-3" title="Andrew"><img src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/defaultavatar.png" alt="Andrew Avatar"></div></div><div class="quote_header"><a href="/post/4970/thread"><abbr data-timestamp="1500059102000" class="o-timestamp time" title="Jul 14, 2017 20:05:02 GMT 1">Jul 14, 2017 20:05:02 GMT 1</abbr></a> <span itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><a href="/user/3" class="user-link js-user-link user-3 group-0" itemprop="url" title=" Andrew "><span itemprop="name">Andrew</span></a></span> said:</div>Well, I know we are not meant to be fully purified yet because I can look at the collective manifestations and see that we are not fully purified. To be fully purified in this context would not be possible or appropriate.<div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div>Mankind is not fully purified. That doesn't tell me it's not possible or appropriate. As for what we're meant to be, who is it who means for us to be some way?<br><br><div class="quote no_header"><div class="quote_body">In regard to Niz, he was obviously purified to a high extent, so could only have been walking the 'highest path'. So it is clear to me that he had therefore served his time, done what he needed to do, and it was appropriate to get the hell our of Dodge.<div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div>I don't know how purified Niz was. That's partly what's being discussed; how enlightenment relates to purification. The issue here is not whether it was time for him to die, but rather how he died. <br><br><div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div> Agreed that mankind is not fully purified but I do think it is possible and appropriate, to the extent that it happens. I'm saying that what is, is what is meant to be. I see Niz as very purified not just because of the self realization but because of the way it came about and because of the way it seemed to have deepened in the years following. I might be wrong, it is just an opinion, my purification reader does not get much use. lol what the fuck has happened here? Excuse my French! |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 14, 2017 21:25:38 GMT
Oh no, plants are compelled to react in that way. As humans, although our bodies constantly react to external stimulus just as plants do, because we have a more sophisticated mind (apparently), we are not 'compelled' the same way. For example, my instinctive spider reaction is negative, but if I really wanted to I could change that reaction. Reacting to external stimulus or conditioning (with a mind) is not the same as picking up on an aggressive intention telepathically (without a mind). Not resonating here, like, at all. Well, if the experiment was correct and plants react with alarm to the intention of aggression, it is a pure telepathic reaction. A human will also pick up telepathically on aggression, but humans are not compelled to react with alarm, whether they do or not depends on the human conditioning. The mind is far more complex. Which bit do you not agree with there? |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 21:34:26 GMT
Which really has far more to do with the mind's response to the disease/ailment than the ailment itself, right? Yeah, and how the body is influenced by the mental/emotional dynamics, and also what sort of experiences those dynamics attract. There are stories of masters dying peacefully in their sleep, and even during meditation, so there are alternatives to a lingering, painful demise. yes agreed, and also agreed, there are alternatives for sure.....but as I've said before, I don't see that we can necessarily draw stark lines of parallel between purity of mind and appearing circumstances. There are also stories of deluded, egomaniacs who die peacefully in their sleep.  |
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