Enigma
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Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 5:07:20 GMT
That was one of the things I meant to imply in my OP on the original thread. So you were implying then that manifestations are evidence of purification or lack thereof? Is that straight across the board, or just manifestations regarding one's bodily health? As I see it, There are always gonna be issues with trying to judge the purity or lack thereof of others... And in particular in looking to the conditions that appear to surround the one we are observing. I say, if we're gonna try to assess one's purity through observation, it would be far more accurate to look to how they react/respond to conditions that arise, (particularly those that we ourselves would find challenging) rather than looking to the arising conditions itself, as proof of where they're at. If the dude who has cancer is truly at peace with it, it begs the question, where's the problem? I don't have a formula for determining purification. I just raised the question. |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 5:13:30 GMT
Yes, physical death is the prize at the end of all paths, including the path of purification.  "The body is but the mill of sh*it. You may put any type of good food in it, and it only turns into sh*it. The body is thus only a sh*it-producing machine. The great wonder of this is that the same body is useful as an instrument for the realization of Brahman." Master of Self-Realization An Ultimate Understanding. Spiritual Discourses of His Holiness Shri Sadguru Siddharameshwar Maharaj Recorded by Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj Only a sh!t producing machine??  |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 16:27:17 GMT
The strongest want in that case would be for my child 'not to' suffer with the disease. In changing places with them (if that could actually happen) I would be saying that my suffering is preferred to his suffering. So yes, I guess technically that specific example would fit the bill for one 'wanting' to suffer....but it is a pretty specialized situation. It is interesting indeed that you'd use that scenario. I wonder...Did you arrive at that out of thin air, or is it related to something I've shared previously? Wouldn't that mean that you would suffer more if you didn't change places? Yeah, good point...that would be right....'cause the way you and I both define suffering, it's not in the mere having of a disease or some other unwanted condition, it's in the thoughts/minding about that. Sooooo....in the case of wanting to trade places with a child to alleviate their suffering, it's 'the thought' of your child suffering that clearly causes you greater pain than your own having of the ailment. |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 16:28:59 GMT
All the purification in the world wouldn't have prevented him from dying from something eventually. I've made the same argument, but the issue is about how painful or peaceful, sudden or protracted the death is. Which really has far more to do with the mind's response to the disease/ailment than the ailment itself, right? |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 16:36:02 GMT
Maybe Enigma has a way of purification, or eradicating the pine beetle to restore balance in nature. If we were able to see the big picture, most likely the pine beetle was what restored balance. It also could be that man threw a monkey wrench in the works, which he is prone to do. Yeah, I thought the same... the only problem with the whole 'balance' deal vs. stuff that supposedly messes with it, is that the more expansive the view, you start to see that what may appear to be a 'monkey wrench' from a more contracted view, is actually part and parcel of what you are calling balance. No separation means that in the big picture, even seemingly, monkey-wrenching humans, are an integral part of 'balance.' |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 16:36:45 GMT
So if your child was suffering from an incurable disease, you wouldn't want to change places with them? To answer that, find out which option would result in less suffering for her. Yes. |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 16:38:55 GMT
So you were implying then that manifestations are evidence of purification or lack thereof? Is that straight across the board, or just manifestations regarding one's bodily health? As I see it, There are always gonna be issues with trying to judge the purity or lack thereof of others... And in particular in looking to the conditions that appear to surround the one we are observing. I say, if we're gonna try to assess one's purity through observation, it would be far more accurate to look to how they react/respond to conditions that arise, (particularly those that we ourselves would find challenging) rather than looking to the arising conditions itself, as proof of where they're at. If the dude who has cancer is truly at peace with it, it begs the question, where's the problem? I don't have a formula for determining purification. I just raised the question. Oh okay. got it. yeah, I don't have a formula either, (doesn't mean I wont' speculate at times though.  ) |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 16:40:03 GMT
"The body is but the mill of sh*it. You may put any type of good food in it, and it only turns into sh*it. The body is thus only a sh*it-producing machine. The great wonder of this is that the same body is useful as an instrument for the realization of Brahman." Master of Self-Realization An Ultimate Understanding. Spiritual Discourses of His Holiness Shri Sadguru Siddharameshwar Maharaj Recorded by Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj Only a sh!t producing machine?? ..That was the day he had a bad stomach flu.  |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 17:31:39 GMT
Wouldn't that mean that you would suffer more if you didn't change places? Yeah, good point...that would be right....'cause the way you and I both define suffering, it's not in the mere having of a disease or some other unwanted condition, it's in the thoughts/minding about that. Sooooo....in the case of wanting to trade places with a child to alleviate their suffering, it's 'the thought' of your child suffering that clearly causes you greater pain than your own having of the ailment. It's kinda like saying I want to go to my job that I hate because I need the money, therefore I want to suffer. |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 18:03:27 GMT
I've made the same argument, but the issue is about how painful or peaceful, sudden or protracted the death is. Which really has far more to do with the mind's response to the disease/ailment than the ailment itself, right? Yeah, and how the body is influenced by the mental/emotional dynamics, and also what sort of experiences those dynamics attract. There are stories of masters dying peacefully in their sleep, and even during meditation, so there are alternatives to a lingering, painful demise. |
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