Seeing Through The SVP | Spiritualgab

Tenka
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 22, 2021 18:42:49 GMT

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Post by Tenka on Oct 22, 2021 18:42:49 GMT

Oct 18, 2021 6:15:00 GMT amoeba said:

Oct 17, 2021 18:35:41 GMT Tenka said:

Which is why we need to know the point of awareness as to whether or not we are talking from a position of mind or not .

One can be self aware of the mind, because it is literally self evident, but beyond the mind there cannot be awareness aware of awareness .

There can be what you are that isn't self aware .

If we remove the self that is self aware then it doesn't equate to awareness remaining .

Awareness is present because there is mindfulness that one is present .

Sure thing.

Without mind one remains engaged in the REAL.

Lovely to meet you again Tenka.

Nice to hear from you too

Esponja
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 8:53:58 GMT via mobile

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Post by Esponja on Oct 23, 2021 8:53:58 GMT

Sept 19, 2021 4:49:28 GMT Figgles said:

Ouroboros: Imagination is the key phrase here, and what underlies its use will doubtlessly form the lynchpin of opposing views on all this. There'll be quite a lot underlying it actually, hehe. Fwiw, I contend that the distinctions you infer arise prior to 'imagination'. Moreover, they're essentially empty in nature, and yet apparently form the basis of a lot of what you seem to lump in with 'What IS'. Which becomes problematic quite quickly. You see, the thing about starting with ANY perceived absolute foundation is you end up with a lot of this bass ackwards. And in turn that limits progression to deeper understanding. Please don't ask me who goes deeper!

Where this is really supposed to end is without the ground beneath our feet. Unbound. Both figuratively and literally.

Yes! You see it too! This was the issue with ZD that I kept trying to point out, when he shut me down/silenced me.

That which abides foundationally and gives rise to all perceivables....is not "a perceivable."

ZD posits a perceivable 'field of aliveness' as foundational. He's mistaking an empty appearance for the abiding ground.

I love the non-dual spk. Am so basic, I say ‘in the dream’ or Truth 🤷🏻‍♀️

Esponja
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 8:57:51 GMT via mobile

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Post by Esponja on Oct 23, 2021 8:57:51 GMT

Sept 19, 2021 3:56:27 GMT Figgles said:

Zendancer: Good pointer!

Yes, a few sages, such as the Buddha, Niz, etc. seem to have gotten the whole shebang at one go, but most sages seem to have multiple realizations and experiences which lead to increasing non-abidance in mind and, subsequently, SR. There are several ND teachers on the scene today who appear to be like Bankei at the time he met Dosha. Dosha acknowledged that Bankei had "penetrated the matter of the self (the SVP)" but had not yet penetrated "the matter beyond." People often discover that the "me" is an illusion, but they often don't realize until later what sees the world if it's not "me."

Nonsense. If there's been an actual non-conceptual "realization/seeing through" of the separate person/me, then the 'seer' of the world is also simultaneously seen through.

If the discoveries are distinct, the way you suggest...first one, then the other, then obviously both are merely conceptual.

I don’t even understand what he means.

Esponja
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 9:00:13 GMT via mobile

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Post by Esponja on Oct 23, 2021 9:00:13 GMT

Oct 17, 2021 3:54:16 GMT Figgles said:

tenka Avatar
9 hours ago tenka said:
Well many will say what you are is awareness so there is simply an awareness of what you are .

For awareness to be aware of awareness in this respect is a red herring because there requires something to be aware .

In the instances where there is supposedly awareness of awareness there isn't something present that can be aware .

If we are talking from a perspective of the mind similar to one simply noticing one's thoughts then it a bit of a merry-go-round, one might as well say one is conscious of consciousness and throw a load of semantics notions around ..

SDP: Exactly.

Getting really hot...but...

The very idea that 'there requires something to be aware,' is what gets seen through in SR!!!!!!!!

There isn't any-thing...the is no-thing "THAT" sees. Just seeing. It sounds absolutely crazy from the position when seeing through the eyes of an SVP is the case.... I know...but......It's the Truth.

Seeing, hearing, thinking is happening. Nobody can take ownership and the one who thinks they can ‘is a thought’. Granted the energy can be pretty intense.

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 17:56:48 GMT Esponja likes this

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Post by Figgles on Oct 23, 2021 17:56:48 GMT

Oct 23, 2021 8:53:58 GMT Esponja said:

Sept 19, 2021 4:49:28 GMT Figgles said:

Yes! You see it too! This was the issue with ZD that I kept trying to point out, when he shut me down/silenced me.

That which abides foundationally and gives rise to all perceivables....is not "a perceivable."

ZD posits a perceivable 'field of aliveness' as foundational. He's mistaking an empty appearance for the abiding ground.

I love the non-dual spk. Am so basic, I say ‘in the dream’ or Truth 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, really the more basic, the better....less opportunity for confusion! And that distinction says it all....'in the dream' or 'Truth.'

And....It's impressive actually, with your awakening being so relatively new, just how clear you are about what is what in that regard...I haven't seen you once conflate something that's 'in the dream' with Truth....I know personally, that distinction remained a bit muddy for me for some time.

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 18:03:09 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Oct 23, 2021 18:03:09 GMT

Oct 23, 2021 8:57:51 GMT Esponja said:

Sept 19, 2021 3:56:27 GMT Figgles said:

Nonsense. If there's been an actual non-conceptual "realization/seeing through" of the separate person/me, then the 'seer' of the world is also simultaneously seen through.

If the discoveries are distinct, the way you suggest...first one, then the other, then obviously both are merely conceptual.

I don’t even understand what he means.

That's very likely because for you, it's so incredibly obvious at this point that 'a someone/something' that sees, is a delusion...an erroneous in the dream idea only.

ZD talks about seeing that the world...himself 'IS NOT' what he thought it was, but he then leaps straight from that absence, to saying that that absence of knowing gets filled in with the presence of a knowing about "what" the world is. Clearly mind/ego just couldn't tolerate that absence of knowledge, & filled it in, and ZD mistook that filling in/new knowledge, for Truth. And unfortunately, this erroneous idea is what he now sells to seekers of Truth.

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 18:04:00 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Oct 23, 2021 18:04:00 GMT

Oct 23, 2021 9:00:13 GMT Esponja said:

Oct 17, 2021 3:54:16 GMT Figgles said:

Getting really hot...but...

The very idea that 'there requires something to be aware,' is what gets seen through in SR!!!!!!!!

There isn't any-thing...the is no-thing "THAT" sees. Just seeing. It sounds absolutely crazy from the position when seeing through the eyes of an SVP is the case.... I know...but......It's the Truth.

Seeing, hearing, thinking is happening. Nobody can take ownership and the one who thinks they can ‘is a thought’. Granted the energy can be pretty intense.

Exactly!! Perfect clarity.

Esponja
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 23, 2021 23:02:52 GMT via mobile Figgles likes this

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Post by Esponja on Oct 23, 2021 23:02:52 GMT

Oct 23, 2021 17:56:48 GMT Figgles said:

Oct 23, 2021 8:53:58 GMT Esponja said:

I love the non-dual spk. Am so basic, I say ‘in the dream’ or Truth 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, really the more basic, the better....less opportunity for confusion! And that distinction says it all....'in the dream' or 'Truth.'

And....It's impressive actually, with your awakening being so relatively new, just how clear you are about what is what in that regard...I haven't seen you once conflate something that's 'in the dream' with Truth....I know personally, that distinction remained a bit muddy for me for some time.

Thanks. The mind certainly had a firm grip post awakening but it has now loosened considerably. I guess when it isn’t believed in too much it can’t retain that same sort of attention (energy).

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Nov 10, 2021 2:11:51 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Nov 10, 2021 2:11:51 GMT

siftingtotruth:
26. IF THE EGO IS, EVERYTHING ELSE ALSO IS. IF THE EGO IS NOT, NOTHING ELSE IS. INDEED, THE EGO IS ALL. THEREFORE THE ENQUIRY AS TO WHAT THIS EGO IS, IS THE ONLY WAY OF GIVING UP EVERYTHING.

Commentary: Everything is a series of things. Things are objects with boundaries. Boundaries are always set in relation to an observer, the one who feels that “I am.” Thinking “I am” means thinking “I am not those things.”

This “I am” thought is the ego. It is inevitably mixed with the belief that “I am the body and the mind” and various other things. In order to think “I am,” the ego has to implicitly create a sense of what it is, and what it is not. That sense is based on the idea that one is a doing, experiencing person.

Only then can you cognize other things. You perceive them in relationship to this person that you think you are. So everything is only possible if there is an ego, a sense of separation, that then creates a world of names and forms. If that sense of separation falls, the boundary-based world cannot stand. All our language and concepts depend on the egoic distinction of an out there as opposed to an in here, on a not-me as opposed to a me.

What you are erroneously suggesting here is that absent a sense of separation, there is no appearing world.....all experience ceases. That is simply not so.

In seeing through 'the experiencer' experience itself does not cease to arise. Experience continues on absent identification with/as an experiencer.

So the only way to really give up everything is to look this egoic illusion in the face. It cannot sustain itself, because the I which is observing everything is not actually that which it seems to be. It seems to be a solid core. It is quite clear that if one looks, though, that the observer is not a solid core. It has no boundaries. It isn’t an object.

But if it isn’t an object, then it isn’t “in here,” and if it isn’t “in here,” then the things that are out there aren’t really out there, since they are only out there relative to something that is in here. Names and forms fall, concepts fall, language falls. Everything then is given up, in the sense that it is was never there to begin with.

So then, experience, all arising appearance, cease for good, up and until the separate persons is once again invoked...?

Inquiry into the ego means to turn attention continuously towards the I, that is, towards whatever is noticing experience. The cardinal rule of self-inquiry is that you cannot be what you are aware of; that in order to be aware of something, there has to be a distance between you and it.

When one tries to do self-inquiry and find the I, one tends to land on another object of experience. This again cannot be you. Then you try to turn towards whatever is noticing that. On and on the inquiry goes this way, until it is seen that more and more of what you thought you were is actually a series of objects. This is then recognized as not you. Pursued to its end, everything is given up.

At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here.

So long as identification with all things/objects/appearance ends, there is no-thing further that needs to be, nor that can be, 'given up.'

The appearing world does not stop appearing once identification with worldly things ceases.

Last Edit: Nov 10, 2021 2:12:45 GMT by Figgles

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Dec 19, 2021 1:10:05 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 19, 2021 1:10:05 GMT

There's a whole series of these clever little videos on youtube.....the brief discussion in the comments, included below, hit home.

S White
1 year ago (edited)
So in the end the girl was free knowing she was a puppet in the play of the Universe, amIright? But at the end they should have shown her also controlling the strings from above 😆

Non Duality Fun
1 year ago
No in the end the promise of freedom for a non existent self dies. It’s all a mystery and there is no real seeker and definitely no-one controlling the strings. Have a look at episode 9 which has only just been put up. There's no-one inside the puppet.