Seeing Through The SVP | Spiritualgab

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Sept 19, 2021 4:20:14 GMT Esponja likes this

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Post by Figgles on Sept 19, 2021 4:20:14 GMT

SDP: You cannot not have a reference for this because whatever you see, whatever you look at, that is it! So it’s just a matter of being consciously aware of it or not" ...
You see this is the kind of wording that I disagree with, and I highlighted recently to zendancer. Whatever you looked at, isn't objectively existing.

Precisely! If it's a "perceivable" it's "empty appearance only....no inherent existence in it's own right."

ZD erroneously posits a perceived "unified field of aliveness" beyond/prior to appearing things, which he erroneously mistakes for "fundamentally abiding."

The very fact that he is perceiving a quality/property/attribute, means, he's still firmly planted in dream-land...the conceptual.

It is, and can be only your subjective physical perception, that is a mulit-layered distortion. So it can't be a reference for anything. It isn't there. It is the perceiver's unique subjective version

As crazy as it may sound.. there IS NO "perceiver." Just perception. And in seeing that, the very idea then of "unique" and "subjective version" goes out the window as there is no longer certain knowing of "MY" perception vs. a "YOUR" perception.

In terms of what can be/is known for certain, there is but one singular perception...one dream....one experience. And both me/you characters are appearances within it.

Last Edit: Sept 19, 2021 4:20:47 GMT by Figgles

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Sept 19, 2021 4:30:08 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Sept 19, 2021 4:30:08 GMT

Zendancer: Who was it that said goodbye a few days ago? Who is it that keeps preaching someone else's sermon? Who is it that claims to have had an epiphany?

The point you are trying to make ZD, falls flat as you still admit to becoming angry....blaming others, and you've demonstrated yourself becoming so frustrated with posters that you banish them from the forum and behave in other ways that makes it clear you don't take challenge well. You also regularly "preach" the words of other teachers....who is it doing all that?

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Sept 19, 2021 4:49:28 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Sept 19, 2021 4:49:28 GMT

Ouroboros: Imagination is the key phrase here, and what underlies its use will doubtlessly form the lynchpin of opposing views on all this. There'll be quite a lot underlying it actually, hehe. Fwiw, I contend that the distinctions you infer arise prior to 'imagination'. Moreover, they're essentially empty in nature, and yet apparently form the basis of a lot of what you seem to lump in with 'What IS'. Which becomes problematic quite quickly. You see, the thing about starting with ANY perceived absolute foundation is you end up with a lot of this bass ackwards. And in turn that limits progression to deeper understanding. Please don't ask me who goes deeper!

Where this is really supposed to end is without the ground beneath our feet. Unbound. Both figuratively and literally.

Yes! You see it too! This was the issue with ZD that I kept trying to point out, when he shut me down/silenced me.

That which abides foundationally and gives rise to all perceivables....is not "a perceivable."

ZD posits a perceivable 'field of aliveness' as foundational. He's mistaking an empty appearance for the abiding ground.

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 17, 2021 3:54:16 GMT Esponja likes this

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Post by Figgles on Oct 17, 2021 3:54:16 GMT

tenka Avatar
9 hours ago tenka said:
Well many will say what you are is awareness so there is simply an awareness of what you are .

For awareness to be aware of awareness in this respect is a red herring because there requires something to be aware .

In the instances where there is supposedly awareness of awareness there isn't something present that can be aware .

If we are talking from a perspective of the mind similar to one simply noticing one's thoughts then it a bit of a merry-go-round, one might as well say one is conscious of consciousness and throw a load of semantics notions around ..

SDP: Exactly.

Getting really hot...but...

The very idea that 'there requires something to be aware,' is what gets seen through in SR!!!!!!!!

There isn't any-thing...the is no-thing "THAT" sees. Just seeing. It sounds absolutely crazy from the position when seeing through the eyes of an SVP is the case.... I know...but......It's the Truth.

Esponja
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 17, 2021 6:07:28 GMT via mobile Figgles likes this

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Post by Esponja on Oct 17, 2021 6:07:28 GMT

Oct 17, 2021 3:54:16 GMT Figgles said:

tenka Avatar
9 hours ago tenka said:
Well many will say what you are is awareness so there is simply an awareness of what you are .

For awareness to be aware of awareness in this respect is a red herring because there requires something to be aware .

In the instances where there is supposedly awareness of awareness there isn't something present that can be aware .

If we are talking from a perspective of the mind similar to one simply noticing one's thoughts then it a bit of a merry-go-round, one might as well say one is conscious of consciousness and throw a load of semantics notions around ..

SDP: Exactly.

Getting really hot...but...

The very idea that 'there requires something to be aware,' is what gets seen through in SR!!!!!!!!

There isn't any-thing...the is no-thing "THAT" sees. Just seeing. It sounds absolutely crazy from the position when seeing through the eyes of an SVP is the case.... I know...but......It's the Truth.

Mind (which doesn’t exist) wants to grasp something. This is a freefalling. Nothing to hold onto. Good luck.

amoeba
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 17, 2021 8:14:15 GMT Esponja likes this

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Post by amoeba on Oct 17, 2021 8:14:15 GMT

Oct 17, 2021 6:07:28 GMT Esponja said:

Oct 17, 2021 3:54:16 GMT Figgles said:

Getting really hot...but...

The very idea that 'there requires something to be aware,' is what gets seen through in SR!!!!!!!!

There isn't any-thing...the is no-thing "THAT" sees. Just seeing. It sounds absolutely crazy from the position when seeing through the eyes of an SVP is the case.... I know...but......It's the Truth.

Mind (which doesn’t exist) wants to grasp something. This is a freefalling. Nothing to hold onto. Good luck.

no mind

nothing to believe.

ghostofmuttley
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 17, 2021 11:12:23 GMT amoeba likes this

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Post by ghostofmuttley on Oct 17, 2021 11:12:23 GMT

Oct 17, 2021 8:14:15 GMT amoeba said:

Oct 17, 2021 6:07:28 GMT Esponja said:

Mind (which doesn’t exist) wants to grasp something. This is a freefalling. Nothing to hold onto. Good luck.

no mind

nothing to believe.

no luck but the breeze

no fortune but the rain

no net, not even the Earth

just eternity

dancing

Tenka
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 17, 2021 18:35:41 GMT

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Post by Tenka on Oct 17, 2021 18:35:41 GMT

Oct 17, 2021 8:14:15 GMT amoeba said:

Oct 17, 2021 6:07:28 GMT Esponja said:

Mind (which doesn’t exist) wants to grasp something. This is a freefalling. Nothing to hold onto. Good luck.

no mind

nothing to believe.

Which is why we need to know the point of awareness as to whether or not we are talking from a position of mind or not .

One can be self aware of the mind, because it is literally self evident, but beyond the mind there cannot be awareness aware of awareness .

There can be what you are that isn't self aware .

If we remove the self that is self aware then it doesn't equate to awareness remaining .

Awareness is present because there is mindfulness that one is present .

Figgles
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 17, 2021 20:08:59 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Oct 17, 2021 20:08:59 GMT

Sifty: Continued from Verse Twenty-Three

24. THE BODY DOES NOT SAY 'I'. NO ONE WILL ARGUE THAT EVEN IN DEEP SLEEP THE 'I' CEASES TO EXIST. ONCE THE 'I' EMERGES, ALL ELSE EMERGES. WITH A KEEN MIND ENQUIRE WHENCE THIS 'I' EMERGES.

Commentary: The body, being insentient, cannot call itself the I any more than the words on a page can speak themselves. And the Self, being beyond thought, does not change or act, and cannot and does not call itself by any name. The light of the Self, then, is said to reflect upon the body (or the body-mind), and in the reflection of that body in the light of the Self — is said to be the ego which arises.

This is much like the imaginary character that is created when a reader (analogous to the Self) reads a book (analogous to the body). In the interaction between reader and book arises an imaginary person who is called the character. This character does not actually do, feel, or think anything, but is only imagined to do so.

This is called the knot that ties consciousness and matter, or the ego. This imaginary character is the one who seems to seek spiritual truth, and at the end of its quest, will be dissolved away by the the knowledge of its own imaginary nature against the background of Self.

At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here.

I think it's important not to misuse that term "imaginary." It's getting a real work out over on ST these days. A character/body mind DOES appear. What does NOT appear, but that often gets erroneously imagined to be so, is separation....a separate/volitional person.

The appearing/arising character never is completely "dissolved away," by realization/seeing through, it's merely put in it's place....seen to be an empty appearance only, which means, "identification with it" dissolves away.

Being awake means crystal clarity as to what facet of experience are 'being erroneously imagined,' vs. what is appearance only, because there's been a shift in seeing from within the dream, to beyond. It's a shift that clearly illuminates the totality of 'dream-content.'

In seeing from beyond, the body/mind/character continues to arise/appear, still a facet of the dream/story, but the separate, volitional person, the sense of being a separate someone, no longer gets erroneously imagined. It's gone.

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2021 20:09:57 GMT by Figgles

amoeba
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Seeing Through The SVP Oct 18, 2021 6:15:00 GMT Tenka likes this

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Post by amoeba on Oct 18, 2021 6:15:00 GMT

Oct 17, 2021 18:35:41 GMT Tenka said:

Oct 17, 2021 8:14:15 GMT amoeba said:

no mind

nothing to believe.

Which is why we need to know the point of awareness as to whether or not we are talking from a position of mind or not .

One can be self aware of the mind, because it is literally self evident, but beyond the mind there cannot be awareness aware of awareness .

There can be what you are that isn't self aware .

If we remove the self that is self aware then it doesn't equate to awareness remaining .

Awareness is present because there is mindfulness that one is present .

Sure thing.

Without mind one remains engaged in the REAL.

Lovely to meet you again Tenka.