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Post by Figgles on Dec 4, 2018 22:01:40 GMT
There was a time in my late twenties where I considered enrolling in University studies of Paranormal Science. I got all excited at the prospect, but it wasn't too long before it became all too clear; regardless of what scientific study of the paranormal reveals, like all science, it's still of the realm of the dream/story and even though it may be transcendent of traditional science, it's still not transcendent of the story/dream. AT that point in my life, I now see, I was very interested in Truth, but still at times looking to the dream itself to reveal it. Still, I was able to see that my quest for Truth would not be satisfied through such study, as such study due to being 'in the dream' could never reveal anything beyond.
Point being, once you've really seen it's all a dream, the jig is up. Nothing that ever happens is going to completely knock your socks off ever again, as you truly have seen that anything at all, anything that can be imagined and even then some, in terms of experience, is possible, but that none of it, is indicative of transcendent Truth.
Thus, studies that hook plants up to electrodes to 'prove' they feel things, or studies that attempt to measure 'energy' through special instruments, studies that attempt to prove the existence of telepathy, precognition, etc, all kinda cool in terms of experience, but none of those resulting in the apprehension of actual Truth.
So, what is Truth? That I am a thingless thing that the dream arises within/to. (which is the same as saying, I exist). That there is no separation...all is One...nothing within the dream causes anything else to happen within the dream...it's all one singular movement...thus, the person is just an appearance, as is volition, personal responsibility.....
There really isn't much to say beyond that and anything that can be said will be a seeing that is directly related to 'no separation'...'I am Self.'
Talk about matter being comprised of energy, molecules, atoms, etc, is still talk about the dream from within the dream. It's not transcendent. Same with talk about experiential connections between people's minds that seemingly extend beyond the five senses. Intuition, psychic power, premonition, after death communications, past life recall, spirit guides, all of it, 'in the dream.'
Yes, within the story, it appears to be transcendent because it pushes the boundaries of that which is most widely accepted/believed, however, that does not make it any less an appearance within the story than the widely accepted view.
Plain and simply, if it is experienced, it is in the dream and it tells you nothing about beyond the dream.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 4, 2018 22:18:27 GMT
Reefs, this is an excellent example of material that 'appears to be' transcendent of the dream, but is actually itself, dream content.
It can get confusing in cases like this. Seth seems to be talking about experience from 'beyond experience,' however, if you look closely, he is still talking about knowledge pertaining to experience, it's just that the experience he is talking about, is supposedly 'beyond' physical experience.
If it pertains to experiential content, it 'aint Truth. Even if that experiential content is supposedly transcendent of normal, everyday experience.
He is talking about entities beyond physically appearing people, that dream of being people. The 'entity' bit should serve as your wake-up call that Seth is not Truthin, but rather, story-tellin.'
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Dec 5, 2018 6:38:06 GMT
There was a time in my late twenties where I considered enrolling in University studies of Paranormal Science. I got all excited at the prospect, but it wasn't too long before it became all too clear; regardless of what scientific study of the paranormal reveals, like all science, it's still of the realm of the dream/story and even though it may be transcendent of traditional science, it's still not transcendent of the story/dream. AT that point in my life, I now see, I was very interested in Truth, but still at times looking to the dream itself to reveal it. Still, I was able to see that my quest for Truth would not be satisfied through such study, as such study due to being 'in the dream' could never reveal anything beyond. Point being, once you've really seen it's all a dream, the jig is up. Nothing that ever happens is going to completely knock your socks off ever again, as you truly have seen that anything at all, anything that can be imagined and even then some, in terms of experience, is possible, but that none of it, is indicative of transcendent Truth. Thus, studies that hook plants up to electrodes to 'prove' they feel things, or studies that attempt to measure 'energy' through special instruments, studies that attempt to prove the existence of telepathy, precognition, etc, all kinda cool in terms of experience, but none of those resulting in the apprehension of actual Truth. So, what is Truth? That I am a thingless thing that the dream arises within/to. (which is the same as saying, I exist). That there is no separation...all is One...nothing within the dream causes anything else to happen within the dream...it's all one singular movement...thus, the person is just an appearance, as is volition, personal responsibility..... There really isn't much to say beyond that and anything that can be said will be a seeing that is directly related to 'no separation'...'I am Self.' Talk about matter being comprised of energy, molecules, atoms, etc, is still talk about the dream from within the dream. It's not transcendent. Same with talk about experiential connections between people's minds that seemingly extend beyond the five senses. Intuition, psychic power, premonition, after death communications, past life recall, spirit guides, all of it, 'in the dream.' Yes, within the story, it appears to be transcendent because it pushes the boundaries of that which is most widely accepted/believed, however, that does not make it any less an appearance within the story than the widely accepted view. Plain and simply, if it is experienced, it is in the dream and it tells you nothing about beyond the dream. Well said. I started to view science as more creation than discovery, and I find it an interesting perspective. Not only science, but every human endeavor, becomes an indicator of the evolution of consciousness in humanity. The 'creation' of quantum physics tells me that humans are about to seriously question the 'reality' we've taken for granted for so long. I see science, psychology, parapsychology, ontology and a few other 'ologies' coming together at a single point, like the apex of a pyramid, and which point they will vanish as separate disciplines, and we'll be left with what...a science of Consciousness? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:00:42 GMT
There was a time in my late twenties where I considered enrolling in University studies of Paranormal Science. I got all excited at the prospect, but it wasn't too long before it became all too clear; regardless of what scientific study of the paranormal reveals, like all science, it's still of the realm of the dream/story and even though it may be transcendent of traditional science, it's still not transcendent of the story/dream. AT that point in my life, I now see, I was very interested in Truth, but still at times looking to the dream itself to reveal it. Still, I was able to see that my quest for Truth would not be satisfied through such study, as such study due to being 'in the dream' could never reveal anything beyond. Point being, once you've really seen it's all a dream, the jig is up. Nothing that ever happens is going to completely knock your socks off ever again, as you truly have seen that anything at all, anything that can be imagined and even then some, in terms of experience, is possible, but that none of it, is indicative of transcendent Truth. Thus, studies that hook plants up to electrodes to 'prove' they feel things, or studies that attempt to measure 'energy' through special instruments, studies that attempt to prove the existence of telepathy, precognition, etc, all kinda cool in terms of experience, but none of those resulting in the apprehension of actual Truth. So, what is Truth? That I am a thingless thing that the dream arises within/to. (which is the same as saying, I exist). That there is no separation...all is One...nothing within the dream causes anything else to happen within the dream...it's all one singular movement...thus, the person is just an appearance, as is volition, personal responsibility..... There really isn't much to say beyond that and anything that can be said will be a seeing that is directly related to 'no separation'...'I am Self.' Talk about matter being comprised of energy, molecules, atoms, etc, is still talk about the dream from within the dream. It's not transcendent. Same with talk about experiential connections between people's minds that seemingly extend beyond the five senses. Intuition, psychic power, premonition, after death communications, past life recall, spirit guides, all of it, 'in the dream.' Yes, within the story, it appears to be transcendent because it pushes the boundaries of that which is most widely accepted/believed, however, that does not make it any less an appearance within the story than the widely accepted view. Plain and simply, if it is experienced, it is in the dream and it tells you nothing about beyond the dream. Well said. I started to view science as more creation than discovery, and I find it an interesting perspective. Not only science, but every human endeavor, becomes an indicator of the evolution of consciousness in humanity. The 'creation' of quantum physics tells me that humans are about to seriously question the 'reality' we've taken for granted for so long. I see science, psychology, parapsychology, ontology and a few other 'ologies' coming together at a single point, like the apex of a pyramid, and which point they will vanish as separate disciplines, and we'll be left with what...a science of Consciousness?ha ha good joke!  |
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Post by Figgles on Dec 5, 2018 16:07:20 GMT
There was a time in my late twenties where I considered enrolling in University studies of Paranormal Science. I got all excited at the prospect, but it wasn't too long before it became all too clear; regardless of what scientific study of the paranormal reveals, like all science, it's still of the realm of the dream/story and even though it may be transcendent of traditional science, it's still not transcendent of the story/dream. AT that point in my life, I now see, I was very interested in Truth, but still at times looking to the dream itself to reveal it. Still, I was able to see that my quest for Truth would not be satisfied through such study, as such study due to being 'in the dream' could never reveal anything beyond. Point being, once you've really seen it's all a dream, the jig is up. Nothing that ever happens is going to completely knock your socks off ever again, as you truly have seen that anything at all, anything that can be imagined and even then some, in terms of experience, is possible, but that none of it, is indicative of transcendent Truth. Thus, studies that hook plants up to electrodes to 'prove' they feel things, or studies that attempt to measure 'energy' through special instruments, studies that attempt to prove the existence of telepathy, precognition, etc, all kinda cool in terms of experience, but none of those resulting in the apprehension of actual Truth. So, what is Truth? That I am a thingless thing that the dream arises within/to. (which is the same as saying, I exist). That there is no separation...all is One...nothing within the dream causes anything else to happen within the dream...it's all one singular movement...thus, the person is just an appearance, as is volition, personal responsibility..... There really isn't much to say beyond that and anything that can be said will be a seeing that is directly related to 'no separation'...'I am Self.' Talk about matter being comprised of energy, molecules, atoms, etc, is still talk about the dream from within the dream. It's not transcendent. Same with talk about experiential connections between people's minds that seemingly extend beyond the five senses. Intuition, psychic power, premonition, after death communications, past life recall, spirit guides, all of it, 'in the dream.' Yes, within the story, it appears to be transcendent because it pushes the boundaries of that which is most widely accepted/believed, however, that does not make it any less an appearance within the story than the widely accepted view. Plain and simply, if it is experienced, it is in the dream and it tells you nothing about beyond the dream. Well said. I started to view science as more creation than discovery, and I find it an interesting perspective. Not only science, but every human endeavor, becomes an indicator of the evolution of consciousness in humanity. The 'creation' of quantum physics tells me that humans are about to seriously question the 'reality' we've taken for granted for so long. I see science, psychology, parapsychology, ontology and a few other 'ologies' coming together at a single point, like the apex of a pyramid, and which point they will vanish as separate disciplines, and we'll be left with what...a science of Consciousness? Likes same post twice. |
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Post by Figgles on Dec 22, 2018 16:34:08 GMT
Seriously? I find it quite odd after all these years of talking on ST, you'd be saying this.
Yeah, all words involve concepts...that's just the way it goes. But, what that word is indicating....a realization that 'sees beyond' experience...that reveals experience as empty of Truth, an arising within Being, is NOT a conceptualization. That really is the difference between a super cool woo-woo, unity experience vs. an actual realization/seeing through.
Indeed, any time we utter a word about 'transcendent seeing, transcendent Truth' we are necessarily invoking concepts...that's why the term 'pointer' gets used....it means stop looking at the word, don't get hung up on the concept it invokes and instead focus upon what is pointed TO. (hint..it's not actually 'a what', but again, words fail).
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Dec 24, 2018 15:29:54 GMT
Seriously? I find it quite odd after all these years of talking on ST, you'd be saying this. Yeah, all words involve concepts...that's just the way it goes. But, what that word is indicating....a realization that 'sees beyond' experience...that reveals experience as empty of Truth, an arising within Being, is NOT a conceptualization. That really is the difference between a super cool woo-woo, unity experience vs. an actual realization/seeing through. Indeed, any time we utter a word about 'transcendent seeing, transcendent Truth' we are necessarily invoking concepts...that's why the term 'pointer' gets used....it means stop looking at the word, don't get hung up on the concept it invokes and instead focus upon what is pointed TO. (hint..it's not actually 'a what', but again, words fail). There is no odd because the word odd is a concept. |
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Post by Figgles on Dec 24, 2018 18:52:47 GMT
Seriously? I find it quite odd after all these years of talking on ST, you'd be saying this. Yeah, all words involve concepts...that's just the way it goes. But, what that word is indicating....a realization that 'sees beyond' experience...that reveals experience as empty of Truth, an arising within Being, is NOT a conceptualization. That really is the difference between a super cool woo-woo, unity experience vs. an actual realization/seeing through. Indeed, any time we utter a word about 'transcendent seeing, transcendent Truth' we are necessarily invoking concepts...that's why the term 'pointer' gets used....it means stop looking at the word, don't get hung up on the concept it invokes and instead focus upon what is pointed TO. (hint..it's not actually 'a what', but again, words fail). There is no odd because the word odd is a concept. Oh yes, right. My bad. |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 6, 2019 20:52:44 GMT
Yes. If it's true there is no cause/effect....(nothing appearing within the dream actually causes or catalyses anything else to appear within the dream) then it follows that conscious planning does not 'actually' cause or catalyze actions.
I've come to look at the apparent 'series' of happenings (time, sequential happening is itself but an appearance) for example; arising desire/interest, planning, follow-through, manifestation, as 'correlated' in the sense that they're all related happenings within a unified story, but no one thing actually causes another. Thus, within the story, intent/interest generally arises first, then planning, then action, but really, there's no cause within the story, to any of that. It's all just one unified movement....all just what's happening.
When looked at that way, the intent, the planning, are just as much themselves a 'manifestation' as the action...all inseparable...no one happening actually being the cause/catalyst to any other.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 6, 2019 21:05:00 GMT
Sifting is pointing to a view that transcends the experiential view. He's speaking from a place of looking at the dream, you are speaking from within the dream. I read you posts lately and wonder ZD if you actually have seen through cause/effect...?  (nothing within experience actually causes or catalyzes other stuff to arise within experience...it just looks that way...it's actually all one seamless movement). All you are doing above is categorizing various kinds of thoughts that arise within experience, into necessary/not necessary piles. Sifting is looking 'at' experience, positing that what appears to be so, actually is not. (ie; thoughts, planning 'cause/catalyze' subsequent action, only appears to be so. In actuality planning, thinking, does not cause action). Everything you say above takes it for granted that stuff within the dream causes other stuff to happen within the dream. |
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(nothing within experience actually causes or catalyzes other stuff to arise within experience...it just looks that way...it's actually all one seamless movement).