Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 16:53:36 GMT
His overall content is correct. That's infact written very well. Change in the inner is the indication that change is going to happen in the outer. He is wrong when he is asking to bring the change in inner via control. But he definitely observed something. Yes. But, "observing something" that happens in experience does not equal realizing the Truth. Again, I have no problem with LOA talk, the experience of a shift in being leading to the manifestation of a previous desire, so long as that experience/happening not being passed off as an evidence of an absolute law...absolute Truth. LOA is all about betterment of experience....it's about adopting the position of the person, which means it's an 'in the dream' ontology...whereas, nonduality/Truth is all about seeing beyond experience. Outer and Inner are not two different movement, they are moving as one. Change in the inner brings the change in the outer! outer manifestation happens. But the problem with his talk is, he thinks he can control the inner but that's not possible either. Outer is moving to confirm your inner experience. Once there is a clarity, there is a change in inner, Once there is a change in inner, then outer movement changes too. Since you are not having the reference to what we are talking about it's difficult for you to understand.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Sept 1, 2020 17:16:14 GMT
Yes. But, "observing something" that happens in experience does not equal realizing the Truth. Again, I have no problem with LOA talk, the experience of a shift in being leading to the manifestation of a previous desire, so long as that experience/happening not being passed off as an evidence of an absolute law...absolute Truth. LOA is all about betterment of experience....it's about adopting the position of the person, which means it's an 'in the dream' ontology...whereas, nonduality/Truth is all about seeing beyond experience. Outer and Inner are not two different movement, they are moving as one. Change in the inner brings the change in the outer! That's a contradiction. Yes, outer and inner move as one, which means that one does not cause/bring the other. Indeed, that's how it's experienced, as the inner 'leads to' a change in the outer, but stop and ask yourself, is the inner change causing the manifestation, really the Truth of the matter? There are no causes within the movie that actually cause other stuff to appear in the movie. On the movie screen, as you are completely engrossed in the movie, it appears as though the appearing actor on the screen, wielding the sword in a previous frame, "caused" the head of the other actor to roll in the subsequent frame, but in actuality, nothing appearing on the screen is causing other stuff to appear on the screen. It's all 'correlated,' yes, and from the position of placing yourself in the shoes of the star character, you'll have the experience of thinking/feeling/desiring this and then afterwards, reaping the manifestation of such, but that the thinking/feelings/desiring caused the manifestation, is just an appearance....just an experience....it has no validity as Truth when seen from beyond the experience. What you are calling inner (feelings, thoughts, desires) is as much a "manifestation" as is the condition you are calling "manifestation." I've told you many times, I DO have such reference. The difference is, I am seeing from 'beyond' such an experience, to see that the inner changes did not "actually" cause the outer changes.....it's all One singular manifestation....with no causal/catalyzing element preceding. The desire, the feelings, the thoughts, the appearing condition are all one singular manifestation...all experienced events are correlates only. You want to assign 'cause' to the thoughts/feelings/desires, but they too, are facets of the manifest condition you are deeming to be 'caused' by them. Absent the idea that you can control your inner, what's even the point about talking about how a change in the inner "causes" a shift in the outer? Honestly, from the position of clarity, when you see it all one singular movement, inner/outer as one singular manifestation, no causation, the very idea of trying to manage, change your feelings, thoughts, meanderings of mind, for the purpose of "creating/manifesting" conditions that you will like better, when they arrive, seems very silly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 12:08:30 GMT
Outer and Inner are not two different movement, they are moving as one. Change in the inner brings the change in the outer! That's a contradiction. Yes, outer and inner move as one, which means that one does not cause/bring the other. Indeed, that's how it's experienced, as the inner 'leads to' a change in the outer, but stop and ask yourself, is the inner change causing the manifestation, really the Truth of the matter? There are no causes within the movie that actually cause other stuff to appear in the movie. On the movie screen, as you are completely engrossed in the movie, it appears as though the appearing actor on the screen, wielding the sword in a previous frame, "caused" the head of the other actor to roll in the subsequent frame, but in actuality, nothing appearing on the screen is causing other stuff to appear on the screen. It's all 'correlated,' yes, and from the position of placing yourself in the shoes of the star character, you'll have the experience of thinking/feeling/desiring this and then afterwards, reaping the manifestation of such, but that the thinking/feelings/desiring caused the manifestation, is just an appearance....just an experience....it has no validity as Truth when seen from beyond the experience. What you are calling inner (feelings, thoughts, desires) is as much a "manifestation" as is the condition you are calling "manifestation." I did not mean to say change the inner and see the manifestation, that's called reality creation(Or Law of attraction). I am saying change in the inner indicates the upcoming manifestation, that's the clue as to outer is going to change.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Sept 4, 2020 17:25:05 GMT
That's a contradiction. Yes, outer and inner move as one, which means that one does not cause/bring the other. Indeed, that's how it's experienced, as the inner 'leads to' a change in the outer, but stop and ask yourself, is the inner change causing the manifestation, really the Truth of the matter? There are no causes within the movie that actually cause other stuff to appear in the movie. On the movie screen, as you are completely engrossed in the movie, it appears as though the appearing actor on the screen, wielding the sword in a previous frame, "caused" the head of the other actor to roll in the subsequent frame, but in actuality, nothing appearing on the screen is causing other stuff to appear on the screen. It's all 'correlated,' yes, and from the position of placing yourself in the shoes of the star character, you'll have the experience of thinking/feeling/desiring this and then afterwards, reaping the manifestation of such, but that the thinking/feelings/desiring caused the manifestation, is just an appearance....just an experience....it has no validity as Truth when seen from beyond the experience. What you are calling inner (feelings, thoughts, desires) is as much a "manifestation" as is the condition you are calling "manifestation." I did not mean to say change the inner and see the manifestation, that's called reality creation(Or Law of attraction). I am saying change in the inner indicates the upcoming manifestation, that's the clue as to outer is going to change. That does sit better, as you are no longer attributing causation to the inner change, however, it's still merely an observation about experience, and thus, still falls short of being an absolute Truth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 17:27:50 GMT
Outer and Inner are not two different movement, they are moving as one. Change in the inner brings the change in the outer! I've told you many times, I DO have such reference. The difference is, I am seeing from 'beyond' such an experience, to see that the inner changes did not "actually" cause the outer changes.....it's all One singular manifestation....with no causal/catalyzing element preceding. The desire, the feelings, the thoughts, the appearing condition are all one singular manifestation...all experienced events are correlates only. You want to assign 'cause' to the thoughts/feelings/desires, but they too, are facets of the manifest condition you are deeming to be 'caused' by them. Absent the idea that you can control your inner, what's even the point about talking about how a change in the inner "causes" a shift in the outer? Honestly, from the position of clarity, when you see it all one singular movement, inner/outer as one singular manifestation, no causation, the very idea of trying to manage, change your feelings, thoughts, meanderings of mind, for the purpose of "creating/manifesting" conditions that you will like better, when they arrive, seems very silly. You are creating the world from within, every time you reach clarity, you start creating it differently, creation moves from inner to outer. Changes happens in inner and then in outer. But outer expression happen definitely.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 17:28:56 GMT
I did not mean to say change the inner and see the manifestation, that's called reality creation(Or Law of attraction). I am saying change in the inner indicates the upcoming manifestation, that's the clue as to outer is going to change. That does sit better, as you are no longer attributing causation to the inner change, however, it's still merely an observation about experience, and thus, still falls short of being an absolute Truth. Nope, Clarity Or knowing clearly does the change in our world. Change doesn't come through our action, but only through clarity.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Sept 4, 2020 17:44:01 GMT
I've told you many times, I DO have such reference. The difference is, I am seeing from 'beyond' such an experience, to see that the inner changes did not "actually" cause the outer changes.....it's all One singular manifestation....with no causal/catalyzing element preceding. The desire, the feelings, the thoughts, the appearing condition are all one singular manifestation...all experienced events are correlates only. You want to assign 'cause' to the thoughts/feelings/desires, but they too, are facets of the manifest condition you are deeming to be 'caused' by them. Absent the idea that you can control your inner, what's even the point about talking about how a change in the inner "causes" a shift in the outer? Honestly, from the position of clarity, when you see it all one singular movement, inner/outer as one singular manifestation, no causation, the very idea of trying to manage, change your feelings, thoughts, meanderings of mind, for the purpose of "creating/manifesting" conditions that you will like better, when they arrive, seems very silly. You are creating the world from within, every time you reach clarity, you start creating it differently, creation moves from inner to outer. Changes happens in inner and then in outer. But outer expression happen definitely. That is the experience when there is a sense of a 'me character' involved, that seems to be doing the creating, but absent that, feelings/intents are as much a facet of the manifest condition as appearing form is. Linear time....this precedes that is indeed a facet of the experience, but it is experiential only.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Sept 4, 2020 17:53:10 GMT
That does sit better, as you are no longer attributing causation to the inner change, however, it's still merely an observation about experience, and thus, still falls short of being an absolute Truth. Nope, Clarity Or knowing clearly does the change in our world. Change doesn't come through our action, but only through clarity. Regardless of clarity, the world is always in flux and regardless of clarity, the precise content of the future can't be known for absolute certain.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 18:34:31 GMT
You are creating the world from within, every time you reach clarity, you start creating it differently, creation moves from inner to outer. Changes happens in inner and then in outer. But outer expression happen definitely. That is the experience when there is a sense of a 'me character' involved, that seems to be doing the creating, but absent that, feelings/intents are as much a facet of the manifest condition as appearing form is. Linear time....this precedes that is indeed a facet of the experience, but it is experiential only. me is not the creator , YOU is the creator.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 18:35:18 GMT
Nope, Clarity Or knowing clearly does the change in our world. Change doesn't come through our action, but only through clarity. Regardless of clarity, the world is always in flux and regardless of clarity, the precise content of the future can't be known for absolute certain. Future can't be known like a movie. But you would not create certain experience for yourself if you have seen it clearly.If you are creating then you haven't clearly seen anything.
|
|