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Post by Figgles on Aug 22, 2018 19:32:08 GMT
While experientially speaking, there's nothing wrong with engaging with ideas/experiences of 'this causes that,' it's important to see all experiential content for what it is--empty of Truth.
This is why any undue focus spent upon trying to figure out 'why' certain people live to a ripe 'ol age and don't visibly show signs of bodily aging to the degree that others do, or why this or that condition happens to some, but not others, is ultimately, a fool's errand....a venture into delusion.
The idea that being in a state where thoughts/ideas/feelings align with wholeness/Source, always and reliably 'results' in particular/specific manifestations, assumes firstly, an objective 'goodness/badness value' regarding appearing conditions and also assumes cause/effect.
In clarity, both of these ideas get seen through.
& really, All it takes to blow apart the 'law' assertion inherent in the claim that a light/happy attitude is responsible for those who live to be 100 and remain in good health, is one miserable 100 yr old, who looks good and is relatively healthy.
It's understandable that folks might be interested in figuring out why certain conditions they deem to be positive happen to certain folks and not others, but really, looking for 'cause' of anything that happens within the dream, is misguided.
That said, playing around with the correlation between focus, feelings, desires and manifestations can at times be fun.
(and yes, Laughter, I'll beat you to the punch; you will very likely be able to find something I've said two years ago or previous to that, that diverges somewhat from what I'm saying here).
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Aug 22, 2018 23:07:18 GMT
While experientially speaking, there's nothing wrong with engaging with ideas/experiences of 'this causes that,' it's important to see all experiential content for what it is--empty of Truth. This is why any undue focus spent upon trying to figure out 'why' certain people live to a ripe 'ol age and don't visibly show signs of bodily aging to the degree that others do, or why this or that condition happens to some, but not others, is ultimately, a fool's errand....a venture into delusion. The idea that being in a state where thoughts/ideas/feelings align with wholeness/Source, always and reliably 'results' in particular/specific manifestations, assumes firstly, an objective 'goodness/badness value' regarding appearing conditions and also assumes cause/effect. In clarity, both of these ideas get seen through. & really, All it takes to blow apart the 'law' assertion inherent in the claim that a light/happy attitude is responsible for those who live to be 100 and remain in good health, is one miserable 100 yr old, who looks good and is relatively healthy. It's understandable that folks might be interested in figuring out why certain conditions they deem to be positive happen to certain folks and not others, but really, looking for 'cause' of anything that happens within the dream, is misguided. That said, playing around with the correlation between focus, feelings, desires and manifestations can at times be fun. (and yes, Laughter, I'll beat you to the punch; you will very likely be able to find something I've said two years ago or previous to that, that diverges somewhat from what I'm saying here). I pretty much agree, but I thought we could explore this a little further. As I see it and have talked about it, experience doesn't contain any transcendent truth, but it does contain 'truths' about the dream itself, hence the corellation you talk about. For example, the laws of science do operate with almost 100% predictability. In this light, I got caught up at the idea of 'playing around with correlation for fun'. Perhaps one who has awakened to the truth of his being beyond physicality and has little concern for how the dream unfolds could accurately be said to be playing around, but in the context of the average LOA student (for example) the interest is really in improving quality of life, and those correlations can become hugely important to that end. FWIW, I'm not down with a positive attitude being the cause of anything even in the physical context. As a correlation, it can just as easily be a good life that leads to a good attitude rather than the reverse. I am, however, in agreement with the notion of alignment with the force of creation (assuming LOA actually teaches something similar to that), though this alignment is the result of a change of being rather than a change in something that is done (i.e. having a positive attitude). |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 23, 2018 0:47:05 GMT
I pretty much agree, but I thought we could explore this a little further. As I see it and have talked about it, experience doesn't contain any transcendent truth, but it does contain 'truths' about the dream itself, hence the corellation you talk about. For example, the laws of science do operate with almost 100% predictability. Yup. Yes, agreed. If the focus upon LOA is indeed just a sort of 'playing around,' that in itself would indicate non-attachment to outcome...it's only those who depend upon particular manifestations for peace to be/who are deluded, who take it for anything more than 'play...engagement with a particular idea/experience.' Me neither. And in saying that, I do admit, that diverges from what I've said in the past about such. Positive attitude, feelings, thoughts, manifestation, all of 'em, dream stuff...no one actually causing the other. And when it's seen there really is no doer, each of those arisings, are part of an unbroken circle. It's all one movement...we could as much be correct in saying that the manifestation was sensed/known and thus, led to the positive feelings/expectations about it's unfolding as we could say the positive feelings led to the unfolding. But, Neither would be Truth. Exactly. Bingo!  You can't "Do" your way to "actual" alignment. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 9:53:11 GMT
While experientially speaking, there's nothing wrong with engaging with ideas/experiences of 'this causes that,' it's important to see all experiential content for what it is--empty of Truth. This is why any undue focus spent upon trying to figure out 'why' certain people live to a ripe 'ol age and don't visibly show signs of bodily aging to the degree that others do, or why this or that condition happens to some, but not others, is ultimately, a fool's errand....a venture into delusion. The idea that being in a state where thoughts/ideas/feelings align with wholeness/Source, always and reliably 'results' in particular/specific manifestations, assumes firstly, an objective 'goodness/badness value' regarding appearing conditions and also assumes cause/effect. In clarity, both of these ideas get seen through. & really, All it takes to blow apart the 'law' assertion inherent in the claim that a light/happy attitude is responsible for those who live to be 100 and remain in good health, is one miserable 100 yr old, who looks good and is relatively healthy. It's understandable that folks might be interested in figuring out why certain conditions they deem to be positive happen to certain folks and not others, but really, looking for 'cause' of anything that happens within the dream, is misguided. That said, playing around with the correlation between focus, feelings, desires and manifestations can at times be fun. We are standing in the midst of the dream, yes.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 23, 2018 17:10:29 GMT
While experientially speaking, there's nothing wrong with engaging with ideas/experiences of 'this causes that,' it's important to see all experiential content for what it is--empty of Truth. This is why any undue focus spent upon trying to figure out 'why' certain people live to a ripe 'ol age and don't visibly show signs of bodily aging to the degree that others do, or why this or that condition happens to some, but not others, is ultimately, a fool's errand....a venture into delusion. The idea that being in a state where thoughts/ideas/feelings align with wholeness/Source, always and reliably 'results' in particular/specific manifestations, assumes firstly, an objective 'goodness/badness value' regarding appearing conditions and also assumes cause/effect. In clarity, both of these ideas get seen through. & really, All it takes to blow apart the 'law' assertion inherent in the claim that a light/happy attitude is responsible for those who live to be 100 and remain in good health, is one miserable 100 yr old, who looks good and is relatively healthy. It's understandable that folks might be interested in figuring out why certain conditions they deem to be positive happen to certain folks and not others, but really, looking for 'cause' of anything that happens within the dream, is misguided. That said, playing around with the correlation between focus, feelings, desires and manifestations can at times be fun. (and yes, Laughter, I'll beat you to the punch; you will very likely be able to find something I've said two years ago or previous to that, that diverges somewhat from what I'm saying here). I pretty much agree, but I thought we could explore this a little further. As I see it and have talked about it, experience doesn't contain any transcendent truth, but it does contain 'truths' about the dream itself, hence the corellation you talk about. For example, the laws of science do operate with almost 100% predictability. In this light, I got caught up at the idea of 'playing around with correlation for fun'. Perhaps one who has awakened to the truth of his being beyond physicality and has little concern for how the dream unfolds could accurately be said to be playing around, but in the context of the average LOA student (for example) the interest is really in improving quality of life, and those correlations can become hugely important to that end. FWIW, I'm not down with a positive attitude being the cause of anything even in the physical context. As a correlation, it can just as easily be a good life that leads to a good attitude rather than the reverse. I am, however, in agreement with the notion of alignment with the force of creation (assuming LOA actually teaches something similar to that), though this alignment is the result of a change of being rather than a change in something that is done (i.e. having a positive attitude). Have been thinking about this and want to refine what I said there a bit. If one is still fully caught up in the illusion of cause/effect, asleep in the dream, in terms of having what he sees to be 'a better experience,' there's nothing wrong at all with an LOA focus. Yes, from that position, he's gonna take credit for all the stuff that happens that he values as 'good' and he's gonna look to what he did wrong, in the face of stuff arising that he values as 'bad,' but such a focus does get one looking at the relationship between thought/feeling/desire/conditions, which is always good thing in terms of human adulthood/emotional maturity, which if/when SR just isn't the case, is always a worthy goal. That said, when it comes to realizing the Truth and thus, seeing through all thoughts/ideas/beliefs, the idea that I am a personal creator, that I as a person have personal power and the autonomy and volition to make shit happen or prevent it from happening, can be a tenacious one. The 'I personally control stuff idea' can be added to the misconceived, 'post SR experiences that somehow supposedly remain Truthy list', along with CC experiences and channeled material. |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 6, 2018 17:02:36 GMT
Essentially, all LOA teachings, this fella included, instruct folks to adopt the perspective of separate volitional person for the purpose of transcending the perspective of SVP, in order to manifest desired outcomes into reality.
From the position of SVP, there is of course, nothing wrong with this, but from the perspective of SR, it's just the equivalent of playing around with dream-stuff from within the dream. It's all about the dream character, wanting to have a 'better dream' and thus, attempting to focus in such a way that he can temporarily transcend the confines of the dream, so that the dream content manifests in alignment with the wants/desires of the dream character. Again, nothing inherently wrong with this at all, but it's a world apart from SR.
Absent the delusion that "I am a separate volitional person," arising desire and manifestation is all regarded much differently. The fundamental perfection of 'whatever is happening' is clearly seen. There's a seamlessness to the arising of desire and the unfolding manifestation...and the nature of desire itself changes to reflect that seeing/knowing of fundamental perfection. The focus moves from being predominantly upon what the 'person' wants and more to a general desire/bent/pull towards harmony, which means an acceptance, even love for, 'whatever IS' unfolding. There is an understanding that if it IS happening, there really is nothing TO DO, other than accept it, allow it, even love it, while it appears. For it is very much known that every manifestation is fleeting, ephermeral in nature and that which appears now, will be replaced with something different in the next moment.
In SR, one is more than happy to just allow that dance of arising/falling to happen. And it really is a 'dance' in that sense between arising desires/wants and arising manifestations...no need to invoke an intermediary to get in the middle of it all. It's all just 'allowed' to flow forth, as it will, absent deep judgements.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 11, 2018 16:54:28 GMT
You do see though, that looking to science to explain stuff that happens in the dream, is still part and parcel of the dream? Just because MRI's and quantum physics reinforces 'the cause/effect stories' we tell, does not actually prove anything transcendent of the dreamscape. So, in other words, they believed themselves to BE body/minds that 'housed' a higher intelligence, a Source/force that gives 'them' as a body/mind, life. So, in short, they attributed the cause of one appearance within the dream to another appearance within the dream. (The unwanted/dreaded/highly resisted bodily state was attributed the cause of 'experiential disconnect from my essence.' ) Again, nothing wrong with engaging such ideas if/when the SVP is still making it's appearance, however, once that's been seen through, it's pretty hard to engage with those ideas in any meaningful way. Too much has been seen to continue to engage that dog & pony show. Post SR, the very nature and depth of desire itself changes to reflect the realization of the fundamental perfection of all of it. Personal wants/desires based upon a sense of need disappear, and a more general intent towards alignment/acceptance with 'what is' takes over. Life becomes more a series of arising intentions/interests that naturally beckon forth action and behavior rather than a series of arising, deeply felt desires for things to be other than what they currently are. From within that position, should a bodily condition arise, it's not necessarily a given that a strong sense will arise in tandem, of needing for it to immediately go away, for it's seen all too clearly, it's deeply understood that "if" it is happening, appearing, the only thing to do is while it is appearing/happening, is accept it, even dare I say, love it. (And that does not mean 'love it' as in, Oh Boy, I am thrilled that this thing is happening...I am talking more absence of resistance, of total acceptance/allowance for whatever appears, because it is non-conceptually known to be a divine expression of God). And it's in that absence of resistance that physical pain, any sense of physical or emotional discord of any kind, has nothing at all from which to arise from. Keep in mind, this 'absence of resistance/love of what is' is not a 'doing' of the person. Rather, it's the absence of the sense of being a separate volitional person, who has to do stuff, TO align with his true essence. In SR, we quite literally go from believing we are an SVP who can and should focus in such a way so as to 'align and connect' with our true nature, to seeing/realizing that there never was any disconnect in the first place...that 'true nature' is actually what I am. From that vantage point, it's not that one no longer cares about bodily health at all, but that caring does not reach such a depth that a deep, encompassing 'desire' for what is, to not be, arises. It's the absence of that deep desire for things to be something other than what they are, that Peace prevails. One who is at Peace does not need for anything in particular to arise in experience. The fundamental perfection of whatever is happening, is viscerally known. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5232/joe-dispenza#ixzz5WZ1Ya7CE |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 11, 2018 17:13:14 GMT
Whoa there girl.  Third mountain does not mean going back to taking experiential content to be Truthy. While appearance-wise, one who is awake may appear to be going through all the same motions, carrying water, chopping wood, however, it's all happening from a completely different view-point....completely absent the identification with 'thingness' that was there prior to SR. The entire 'world' has changed. Previously, I existed within the world...NOW, the world arises within that which I am. |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 12, 2018 3:12:41 GMT
Well said.
Interesting how you saw that, but then packed up your bags again and headed on back to 1st mountain.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Nov 13, 2018 0:38:54 GMT
Well said. Interesting how you saw that, but then packed up your bags again and headed on back to 1st mountain. Well, the beer's a lot colder at 1'st mountain.  |
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