Enigma
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Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Jan 25, 2019 1:39:22 GMT
Would the notion of a law involving one manifest thing/feeling/thought attracting other manifestations even arise though absent the idea of a someone who can 'apply it' to get what he wants? Derren Brown poops on all ideas pertaining to anything beyond what appears to be so on the surface of things. Thus, you can rest assured, he's also opposed to the very idea of a Law that says specific feelings beget specific happenings. It might sound 'clean and simple' but 'like attracts like' still posits one manifestation (in this case, feelings) as a cause/catalyst to another manifestation. In actuality, nothing within the realm of the manifest actually causes or catalyzes anything else. It just looks that way from the position of an imagined separate volitional person.....which itself, is also a manifestation. Seeing it's all one movement reveals that while similar/apparently related stuff may appear within the story during a given experiential period of time, in actuality, no one arising thing (thought, feeling, circumstance, event) is actually 'causing' another to arise. Again, it just looks that way from the position of SVP. What most LOA teachers forget to mention, is that desire/intent/interest is itself a manifestation, and one that even from the position of SVP can be seen to be beyond the control of such. Again, even if we take the intention to manifest desires out of the equation, the law of 'like attracts like' hinges upon a perspective from within the story. From within the story it does indeed 'appear' that a feeling manifests and then that 'attracts/creates' other stuff that is of a similar 'vibe.' But get outside the story, and it can clearly be seen that no-thing arising within the story is actually causing, attracting, or creating anything else. Again, it just looks that way. One unified movement means it's ALL just happening....no actual 'laws' within the story itself that are governing how the story unfolds. The entirety is one unified unfolding. There is no manifestation/arising phenomena attracting or creating another thing/happening. Rather, the dream unfolds in a way that makes it appear as though that is so. A better story, IMO, is that there are patterns and flows to creation and if one is a part of a particular pattern, he may experience thoughts and feelings and other 'manifestations' occurring within that pattern of creation. As you imply, this may include the desire to manifest a particular thing or it may include the manifestation itself. Generally, there's the implication that we only manifest when we want to. (When we want something other than what's happening), but if we can manifest something that isn't here, then we must have manifested it not being here in the first place. IOW, if we can manifest our fulfillment, then we have also manifested our lack. We don't actually do either one, but still, 'like attracts like' has some validity. As much validity as 'opposites attract'. So what's a mother to do?  |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 25, 2019 1:59:38 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... Zackly. When one is wanting what is happening, he is in the flow of creation and can't help but get what he wants. When he is wanting something other than creation is creating, he can't help but fail to get it. The most powerful manifestation technique is not to create what is wanted but to want what is created.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 4:04:57 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... Zackly. When one is wanting what is happening, he is in the flow of creation and can't help but get what he wants. When he is wanting something other than creation is creating, he can't help but fail to get it. The most powerful manifestation technique is not to create what is wanted but to want what is created. I love the way you have written! |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 25, 2019 5:44:57 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... Zackly. When one is wanting what is happening, he is in the flow of creation and can't help but get what he wants. When he is wanting something other than creation is creating, he can't help but fail to get it. The most powerful manifestation technique is not to create what is wanted but to want what is created. Hell yeah! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 6:46:26 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... Zackly. When one is wanting what is happening, he is in the flow of creation and can't help but get what he wants. When he is wanting something other than creation is creating, he can't help but fail to get it. The most powerful manifestation technique is not to create what is wanted but to want what is created. that's very clear. But one can't stop wanting to be free when he is suffering. It's automatic. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 6:56:13 GMT
Would the notion of a law involving one manifest thing/feeling/thought attracting other manifestations even arise though absent the idea of a someone who can 'apply it' to get what he wants? Derren Brown poops on all ideas pertaining to anything beyond what appears to be so on the surface of things. Thus, you can rest assured, he's also opposed to the very idea of a Law that says specific feelings beget specific happenings. It might sound 'clean and simple' but 'like attracts like' still posits one manifestation (in this case, feelings) as a cause/catalyst to another manifestation. In actuality, nothing within the realm of the manifest actually causes or catalyzes anything else. It just looks that way from the position of an imagined separate volitional person.....which itself, is also a manifestation. Seeing it's all one movement reveals that while similar/apparently related stuff may appear within the story during a given experiential period of time, in actuality, no one arising thing (thought, feeling, circumstance, event) is actually 'causing' another to arise. Again, it just looks that way from the position of SVP. What most LOA teachers forget to mention, is that desire/intent/interest is itself a manifestation, and one that even from the position of SVP can be seen to be beyond the control of such. Again, even if we take the intention to manifest desires out of the equation, the law of 'like attracts like' hinges upon a perspective from within the story. From within the story it does indeed 'appear' that a feeling manifests and then that 'attracts/creates' other stuff that is of a similar 'vibe.' But get outside the story, and it can clearly be seen that no-thing arising within the story is actually causing, attracting, or creating anything else. Again, it just looks that way. One unified movement means it's ALL just happening....no actual 'laws' within the story itself that are governing how the story unfolds. The entirety is one unified unfolding. There is no manifestation/arising phenomena attracting or creating another thing/happening. Rather, the dream unfolds in a way that makes it appear as though that is so. A better story, IMO, is that there are patterns and flows to creation and if one is a part of a particular pattern, he may experience thoughts and feelings and other 'manifestations' occurring within that pattern of creation. As you imply, this may include the desire to manifest a particular thing or it may include the manifestation itself. Generally, there's the implication that we only manifest when we want to. (When we want something other than what's happening), but if we can manifest something that isn't here, then we must have manifested it not being here in the first place. IOW, if we can manifest our fulfillment, then we have also manifested our lack.
We don't actually do either one, but still, 'like attracts like' has some validity. As much validity as 'opposites attract'. So what's a mother to do? Amazing! Awesome! Enigma You are awesome! |
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Post by dibosaur on Jan 25, 2019 15:43:02 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... When what arises triggers unwanted feelings, the lack of consciousness of those feelings frequently manifests as a desire to change what is, which is a declaration of war that can never end. If you want to refer to the state of mind in which those feelings are expressed as 'wanting what is', that's fine, but what happens in the wake of greater consciousness may very well be a change in perspective that brings about a change in experience. That would be no longer wanting what is, because what was is bound to change. Because the emotional unconscious is the lifeblood of person identification, I guess we are talking about getting the person outta the way. But because feelings of powerlessness or hopelessness are so often linked to psychic disturbances, the potential to get stuck in a wanting to be powerless mentality is evident. One might even experience a degree of flow as they delude themselves that they want others to walk all over them, which of course is an auric match for a doormat-like existence. And so I wouldn't say desires need to go (although some probly do), but that desires linked to the lifeblood of identification may at the very least need to be tweaked. Meaning, the enterprise of desire unfolds in a different way when one is no longer seeking a sense of self from the very creation that is already essentially itself. Wanting to find oneself is a desire that can go, while conditioned behavior unfolds more consciously. This unfolding is embodied through an absence of compensation for injuries, which is the taint of unconscious living. But a conscious person may still want the same pair of shoes that very same person wanted prior to being conscious. Although maybe a change in shoe lace color is called for, to jazz em up or down a bit, accordingly.  |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 25, 2019 16:18:17 GMT
Zackly. When one is wanting what is happening, he is in the flow of creation and can't help but get what he wants. When he is wanting something other than creation is creating, he can't help but fail to get it. The most powerful manifestation technique is not to create what is wanted but to want what is created. that's very clear. But one can't stop wanting to be free when he is suffering. It's automatic. True dat, but freedom is the inevitable result of ceasing to struggle with what is. We think freedom requires changes in our outer world, and so we struggle to remake our world, trying to stand apart and in opposition to creation, thereby reinforcing the bars of our prison. When there is acceptance, creation does not give us horrors to accept. The flow of creation that one steps into is fundamentally benevolent, is Love. |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Jan 25, 2019 16:44:07 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... When what arises triggers unwanted feelings, the lack of consciousness of those feelings frequently manifests as a desire to change what is, which is a declaration of war that can never end. If you want to refer to the state of mind in which those feelings are expressed as 'wanting what is', that's fine, but what happens in the wake of greater consciousness may very well be a change in perspective that brings about a change in experience. That would be no longer wanting what is, because what was is bound to change. Because the emotional unconscious is the lifeblood of person identification, I guess we are talking about getting the person outta the way. But because feelings of powerlessness or hopelessness are so often linked to psychic disturbances, the potential to get stuck in a wanting to be powerless mentality is evident. One might even experience a degree of flow as they delude themselves that they want others to walk all over them, which of course is an auric match for a doormat-like existence. And so I wouldn't say desires need to go (although some probly do), but that desires linked to the lifeblood of identification may at the very least need to be tweaked. Meaning, the enterprise of desire unfolds in a different way when one is no longer seeking a sense of self from the very creation that is already essentially itself. Wanting to find oneself is a desire that can go, while conditioned behavior unfolds more consciously. This unfolding is embodied through an absence of compensation for injuries, which is the taint of unconscious living. But a conscious person may still want the same pair of shoes that very same person wanted prior to being conscious. Although maybe a change in shoe lace color is called for, to jazz em up or down a bit, accordingly. Hey, are you from Philly, by any chance?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 16:57:55 GMT
And taking into account all I said above, I will still admit, my experience continues to confirm the idea that when the person gets the hell outta the way, life unfolds as a series of arising intentions that just naturally appear to morph easily and without obstruction, into manifestation...and when the person is in the way, getting all judgey and involved in 'how' life should be unfolding, which usually means desire/wants more of the 'burning' variety, life just doesn't flow as easily....intentions appear to be thwarted, things don't run as smoothly...there's a large gap between what currently IS and what is wanted/intended. As Jed McKenna talked about, it can be tempting indeed to slap the label of "Truth" upon this observation of how an accepting/allowing stance towards life seems to make for an easier, less bumpy experience....but because it's 'within the dream,' it defies such. perhaps a better way to frame this is; When the SVP has been seen through, the nature of arising intentions/wants/desires become different absent the delusion of being a separate someone, which means absent the idea that certain stuff is needed/necessary to be at peace. Intentions then arise in accord with the realization of the unified movement that is unfolding instead of in resistance to what is unfolding. Byron Katie's "Loving what Is" comes to mind here. What the AH LOA teachings specifically are actually trying to do is to 'get the person the heck outta the way,' so he can manifest all the stuff the person thinks he needs to be happy...which is obviously problematic...however, if 'person outta the way' remains the focus, I think there's room there for an auspicious position....if one can come to see that it's the absence of resistance he is actually seeking for, (Peace) not the stuff that the person thinks he needs to be happy, (and that the very ideas surrounding his burning desires for change are themselves what needs to go), well.....there's that auspicious position.... When what arises triggers unwanted feelings, the lack of consciousness of those feelings frequently manifests as a desire to change what is, which is a declaration of war that can never end. If you want to refer to the state of mind in which those feelings are expressed as 'wanting what is', that's fine, but what happens in the wake of greater consciousness may very well be a change in perspective that brings about a change in experience. That would be no longer wanting what is, because what was is bound to change. Because the emotional unconscious is the lifeblood of person identification, I guess we are talking about getting the person outta the way. But because feelings of powerlessness or hopelessness are so often linked to psychic disturbances, the potential to get stuck in a wanting to be powerless mentality is evident. One might even experience a degree of flow as they delude themselves that they want others to walk all over them, which of course is an auric match for a doormat-like existence. And so I wouldn't say desires need to go (although some probly do), but that desires linked to the lifeblood of identification may at the very least need to be tweaked. Meaning, the enterprise of desire unfolds in a different way when one is no longer seeking a sense of self from the very creation that is already essentially itself. Wanting to find oneself is a desire that can go, while conditioned behavior unfolds more consciously. This unfolding is embodied through an absence of compensation for injuries, which is the taint of unconscious living. But a conscious person may still want the same pair of shoes that very same person wanted prior to being conscious. Although maybe a change in shoe lace color is called for, to jazz em up or down a bit, accordingly. Hey dude, You are writing something very meaningful, I sense something very deep. Where are you from? anyway I welcome you to our forum. |
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