Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:46:32 GMT
I don't know what you believe I believe. My simple answer is 'yes, the dog suffers' My complex answer is 'yes, the dog suffers and will be mentally and emotionally scarred, but still the dog does not suffer in quite the same way most adult humans do'. What's yours? You see, I'm not playing games here, I'm just trying to find out what you believe. You are playing games here. Clearly you're bored. Your argument is a faux argument. Find something worthwhile to experience, like a still mind. I give you a direct answer to my own question to show you that I'm not playing games, and that I just want your answer....and you think I am playing games. I can't argue something with you if I don't know what you believe. Can you answer the question simply please? If not, why not? |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:47:00 GMT
You act as if I am asking you a trick question. It's not. It's still based on your beliefs. Yes I believe that dogs suffer when tortured. And? |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:54:45 GMT
I give you a direct answer to my own question to show you that I'm not playing games, and that I just want your answer....and you think I am playing games. I can't argue something with you if I don't know what you believe. Can you answer the question simply please? If not, why not? Because I see no point in getting all caught up in your drama without regard to pain and suffering. If I happen to encounter pain, or suffering with regard to my own experience, I go the route of open empty awareness these days. All of our solutions for any situation can be found there. Einstein described it perfectly when he said you cannot resolve a problem on the same plane it was created on. This goes for pain and suffering, too. It DOES work. I'm not asking about your APPROACH to pain and suffering, or the way that solutions can be found. I mean, in one way I don't have a problem with what you said here, but you just arent answering the question. Would you have a problem answering the question if the question was.....''can humans suffer?'' |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:57:01 GMT
Yes I believe that dogs suffer when tortured. And? Okay, so, what's your solution? You don't have one. If you did you wouldn't continue pointing at it. Yes I can talk about solutions, but I can't see the point if we aren't even agreed that animals can, and do, suffer. I mean, do you see that there would be no point in me talking about solutions if you don't even believe that animals can suffer? |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 23:02:34 GMT
I'm not asking about your APPROACH to pain and suffering, or the way that solutions can be found. I mean, in one way I don't have a problem with what you said here, but you just arent answering the question. Would you have a problem answering the question if the question was.....''can humans suffer?'' In my experience, one which you were fully aware of many years ago with regard to a hospice experience, what had the potential for much suffering was negated by a lot of love. When the pain became unbearable, we did what had to be done. You're way off base, Andrew. Your mind needs more rest than you're willing to acknowledge. If you are talking about my Mum, she was never in a hospice. But yeah, I would say she experienced some suffering. But I don't know what you are talking about here. Is this your way of saying that humans can suffer? So can animals suffer? |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 23:03:56 GMT
Yes I can talk about solutions, but I can't see the point if we aren't even agreed that animals can, and do, suffer. I mean, do you see that there would be no point in me talking about solutions if you don't even believe that animals can suffer? Take your clever intellect for a walk. Can you answer the question please? It's not a trick question. If you want to discuss solutions after that's fine, but until you answer the question, what would be the point in me saying anything. |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 23:12:41 GMT
If you are talking about my Mum, she was never in a hospice. But yeah, I would say she experienced some suffering. But I don't know what you are talking about here. Is this your way of saying that humans can suffer? So can animals suffer? No, I'm not talking about your mom. I said- In my experience. I was describing something we experienced here in our home. When she told us, in her words, that the PAIN was becoming unbearable, we were prepared for that and acted. She never encountered suffering. I'm really not interested in continuing this conversation any longer. Obviously you're distracted. Have a good evening. Your words after the first comma confused me. So yes, you acted out of love, and when the pain was becoming unbearable , you understand that the suffering would increase too. So can animals suffer? |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 23:14:03 GMT
Can you answer the question please? It's not a trick question. If you want to discuss solutions after that's fine, but until you answer the question, what would be the point in me saying anything. I've described the experiences in detail. Nuff said. I asked you to explain in such way that a stupid person would understand. Maybe I am more stupid than a stupid person  but I am not yet clear if you believe that animals can suffer, and what I am also not clear about, is why you won't answer. |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 23:18:11 GMT
Your words after the first comma confused me. So yes, you acted out of love, and when the pain was becoming unbearable , you understand that the suffering would increase too. So can animals suffer? I sense you're confused period. You're whole shtick is to get your point across with regard to suffering. Then talk to me in such simple way that can't leave me more confused. Can animals suffer? |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 23:22:56 GMT
I asked you to explain in such way that a stupid person would understand. Maybe I am more stupid than a stupid person but I am not yet clear if you believe that animals can suffer, and what I am also not clear about, is why you won't answer. Live with it for awhile in silence. Why think about suffering all day long into the night? It's a nonsense to be focused on something like that when you could be focused on the Self. I already know my answer so it doesn't require contemplation or meditation. What's your answer? And why WONT you answer? I can be accused of many things over the years, but if I am asked a question repeatedly, I will answer it. If I don't know, then I will say that. What's the problem with answering the question? Surely you don't think that answering the question would somehow diminish you or something like that? |
|
but I am not yet clear if you believe that animals can suffer, and what I am also not clear about, is why you won't answer.