Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 21:59:40 GMT
I just want to pick up on something you said there....''What needed to be accomplished was accomplished''. Yes, I do believe that's true. It was necessary for you to witness and respond in the way you did, and there has been a period of healing after. BUT, a key part of the healing is recognizing what the deer gave and sacrificed. The deer had a tough experience and gave its life for you. The animals love us that much, that they are willing to continue to sacrifice themselves until we, as human beings, honour them appropriately. Until we learn our lessons.
And that lesson to be learned is NOT that animals (and babies) can't suffer!
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:00:37 GMT
My argument isn't about the deer that you witnessed suffering, my argument is that animals can suffer. And I mean this in the most self-evident, intuitive and obvious way. I saw a deer that was never going to be able to fend for itself with regard to the basics. Natures laws transcend your understanding of what I was present to. Again, this is trite. No wisdom here. You've said nothing. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:00:56 GMT
That's correct, but it can be expressed through concepts. In your last message, I began to see a glimmer, but previous to that, there was nothing. Reads like judgement on this end. How's that serving you these days? Trite. Do YOU believe that animals and babies cannot suffer? (and I mean the word 'suffer' in the most obvious and self-evident way) |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:07:03 GMT
Again, this is trite. No wisdom here. You've said nothing. Don't trash it just yet. Sit with it. Trite. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:13:04 GMT
Trite. Do YOU believe that animals and babies cannot suffer? (and I mean the word 'suffer' in the most obvious and self-evident way) Hmmm... trite must be your new go-to understanding for experiences you cannot understand. You're mind is failng 'you', again. I've experienced being present with an experience, and in that being present solutions can be engaged with. We intuitively know what to do. Answer the question. Do YOU believe that animals and babies cannot suffer? (and I mean the word 'suffer' in the most obvious and self-evident way) |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:16:13 GMT
I did. Find out who or what isn't satisfied with the response. Your answer gives me no indication as to whether you believe animals can suffer. Please give me a clear indication, one that even the stupidest person would understand. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:30:51 GMT
Your answer gives me no indication as to whether you believe animals can suffer. Please give me a clear indication, one that even the stupidest person would understand. I haven't a clue what your definition of suffering is. Unless you are suffering right now in this moment, you do not either. So get real. As I explained earlier, I was present with the deer's dilemna. It was no longer going to be able to fend for itself in the wild. It was going to become prey. So I made a couple of phone calls and arrived at a decision. Let's pretend I am asking a 10 year old the following question... ''If someone physically tortures a dog repeatedly, will the dog suffer?''. The answer most kids, and most adults, will give....is ''yes''. The definition of 'suffer' there is obvious and self-evident. I'm not changing the definition from the commonly agreed one. So I am asking you....''if someone physically tortures a dog repeatedly, will the dog suffer?'' It's not a clever or trick question, quite the opposite in fact. I would like you to give a clear indication as to what you believe. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:34:04 GMT
Your answer gives me no indication as to whether you believe animals can suffer. Please give me a clear indication, one that even the stupidest person would understand. You know, you are getting rather full of yourself. Real question- How's that working out for you? You surely have better things to do than to convince me of your beliefs. Get out of your head, Fred. At the moment I am not trying to convince you of a belief, I am trying to find out your belief. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:37:41 GMT
Let's pretend I am asking a 10 year old the following question... ''If someone physically tortures a dog repeatedly, will the dog suffer?''. The answer most kids, and most adults, will give....is ''yes''. The definition of 'suffer' there is obvious and self-evident. I'm not changing the definition from the commonly agreed one. So I am asking you....''if someone physically tortures a dog repeatedly, will the dog suffer?'' It's not a clever or trick question, quite the opposite in fact. I would like you to give a clear indication as to what you believe. Well, I certainly don't believe what you believe. And the evidence of it taints the vast majority of your posts. Sit in silence much? Give it a shot. I don't know what you believe I believe. My simple answer is 'yes, the dog suffers' My complex answer is 'yes, the dog suffers and will be mentally and emotionally scarred, but still the dog does not suffer in quite the same way most adult humans do'. What's yours? You see, I'm not playing games here, I'm just trying to find out what you believe. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Feb 12, 2018 22:38:31 GMT
At the moment I am not trying to convince you of a belief, I am trying to find out your belief. Based on your own beliefs. You act as if I am asking you a trick question. It's not. |
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