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Post by Figgles on Mar 12, 2018 16:38:23 GMT
“When we believe in the world outside of ourselves, gain is often perceived as good and loss as bad. When we stop believing in a world external to self. that reverses: gain becomes bad and loss becomes good. Nothing we can lose was ever ours in the first place. All we can ever lose is illusion.”
― Jed McKenna, Spiritual Warfare
Those who are arguing for CC experiential content and for knowing re: the appearing person are arguing for a 'gain.' Essentially, they are demonstrating their continued belief in 'an outside world.'
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Post by Figgles on Mar 13, 2018 20:04:35 GMT
Yes!
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Post by Figgles on Mar 13, 2018 20:27:24 GMT
It does not take a CC experience to see/know the connection that is present between and within all things. In fact, if the CC results in one believing that they know for fact that the appearing person is actually experiencing, that false knowing/delusion, gets in the way of love flowing unimpeded.
Just look at yourself and your deep judgements about the world wide 'system' that must be overhauled, an unbalanced world that needs folks like you to help balance and fix it's wrongs...(what YOU perceive to be it's wrongs).
If you truly had an understanding that there is something more profound, that there is love and perfection that cannot be touched by surface appearance, happenings, there's no way you'd even be seeing a whole world that is broken and unbalanced, let alone have the mesmerized focus you have, upon the need to overhaul 'systems' and bring balance.
Actually realizing unity, fundamental perfection, love without an object means a dramatic shift in the way you see and relate to 'the world.'
Plain and simply, If you actually, truly knew 'there are no others', you would not be seeing 'the world' as unbalanced and in need of healing. for you the question has not fallen away, rather, you have an answer, thus, you've stopped asking.
One though who has seen that all appearances are empty, has had the question fall away, because it's seen to be misconceived. (you don't keep lowing your pail into a well that you know to be dry).
Your deep and driving interest in fixing a broken world, quite literally broadcasts the fact that you've not realized the illusive nature of all that appears....which of course, includes 'appearing individuation.' Your talk about 'there are no others' is just lip-service, just something that sounds good to you... a nice sentiment, but one that really has no actual ramifications in terms of how you see and how you live life.
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Post by Figgles on Mar 14, 2018 15:31:06 GMT
“Spiritual awakening,” I continue, “is about discovering what’s true. Anything that’s not about getting to the truth must be discarded. Truth isn’t about knowing things—you already know too much. It’s about un knowing. It’s not about becoming true, it’s about un becoming false so that all that’s left is truth. If you want to become a priest or a lama or a rabbi or a theologian, then there’s a lot to learn—tons and tons. But if you want to figure out what’s true, then it’s a whole different process and the last thing you need is more knowledge.”
Jed McKenna
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Post by Figgles on Mar 14, 2018 15:41:13 GMT
In light of the recent brouhaha with Reefs, found this past post of his to be rather interesting. Albeit, it was a few years back he posted it.....makes me wonder if his big CC experience that now has him knowing for certain that folks that appear to him are in fact, consciously self aware, happened before or after he posted this. Fwiw, I agree with everything he says there.  |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Mar 14, 2018 16:37:00 GMT
“Spiritual awakening,” I continue, “is about discovering what’s true. Anything that’s not about getting to the truth must be discarded. Truth isn’t about knowing things—you already know too much. It’s about un knowing. It’s not about becoming true, it’s about un becoming false so that all that’s left is truth. If you want to become a priest or a lama or a rabbi or a theologian, then there’s a lot to learn—tons and tons. But if you want to figure out what’s true, then it’s a whole different process and the last thing you need is more knowledge.” Jed McKenna It's very clearly said. It seems to me lots of peeps don't get that. Whenever I mention it there's a deafening silence, and I get the impression that the idea is being applied to what we call the ineffable and that it has nothing to do with our ideas about the world. What's your impression? |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Mar 14, 2018 16:45:39 GMT
In light of the recent brouhaha with Reefs, found this past post of his to be rather interesting. Albeit, it was a few years back he posted it.....makes me wonder if his big CC experience that now has him knowing for certain that folks that appear to him are in fact, consciously self aware, happened before or after he posted this. Fwiw, I agree with everything he says there. Wow, that sounds like the Reefs I used to know. I notice it's from 5 years ago. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 14, 2018 18:40:43 GMT
“Spiritual awakening,” I continue, “is about discovering what’s true. Anything that’s not about getting to the truth must be discarded. Truth isn’t about knowing things—you already know too much. It’s about un knowing. It’s not about becoming true, it’s about un becoming false so that all that’s left is truth. If you want to become a priest or a lama or a rabbi or a theologian, then there’s a lot to learn—tons and tons. But if you want to figure out what’s true, then it’s a whole different process and the last thing you need is more knowledge.” Jed McKenna It's very clearly said. It seems to me lots of peeps don't get that. Whenever I mention it there's a deafening silence, and I get the impression that the idea is being applied to what we call the ineffable and that it has nothing to do with our ideas about the world. What's your impression? Yeah....that's what I'm seeing too. And it's strange, because some of the folks who used to really get on board with the whole "SR is a loss, not a gain" dealy, now seem to be gushing all over the importance of gaining certain, very specific experiential knowledge...I don't get it. It's rare I think to see someone who is SR, go 'backwards,' but that's what seems to be happening. & Fwiw, I myself was one of those who argued against that, (with those very folks who now seem to have gone backwards!). ....As I've said, while I have been aware that my perspective has shifted slightly in the past while, I've been having trouble pin-pointing exactly how or where, but am seeing right now, for one, it is specifically re: this issue.......while gaining an improved experience may still hold value, I mean, what's not to like about an enjoyable dream, it is NOT SR....and if it's truly SR one is interested in, experiential knowings don't merely take a back seat....they need to be seen through completely...not just some of them...ALL of them, regardless of how 'special or transcendent' they may seem to be. There is no experiential knowledge that is going to set you free....in fact, it is experiential knowledge that obscures and obstructs freedom. I think in the past I was mistakingly seeing a sort of bridge that existed between experience and Truth realization....that the very interest in a better/improved experience, (if one could attain a sense that that had actually happened), would then sort of naturally 'launch' him into SR...but what I'm seeing now is that the very sense that one has succeeded in bettering his experience is more than likely to further anchor him within the dream....whereas, SR is about waking up from the dream. Becoming more comfy within the dream-scape gives one little reason or interest to see beyond it. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 14, 2018 18:51:10 GMT
In light of the recent brouhaha with Reefs, found this past post of his to be rather interesting. Albeit, it was a few years back he posted it.....makes me wonder if his big CC experience that now has him knowing for certain that folks that appear to him are in fact, consciously self aware, happened before or after he posted this. Fwiw, I agree with everything he says there. Wow, that sounds like the Reefs I used to know. I notice it's from 5 years ago. Yes, I'd love to hear from him about what's changed. With all his focus upon Seth now, in particular, it really does seem as though he sees the same sort of 'bridge' between SR and experience that I myself used to see. Funny to think we've completely switched positions...? who knows... Would love to discuss it with him, but I get the sense that direct conversation with Figgles at this point, is regarded by him and few others at ST as "consorting with an supporting the enemy.  Too bad.  |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 14, 2018 23:24:21 GMT
Yup. When it's said that appearances arise to Being/of Being and that they are empty/devoid of Truth, that is what's being said, just using different words. I tried to talk about it just the way you are there, but Andrew had difficulty with that wording so I dropped it.
So, do you still agree that appearances do not exist in their own right...that they arise to/within I am/existence, and that "I am is the only thing that is certain"? Or have you changed your mind about that?
E has not made any conclusions...unless you think that 'all appearances are empty' is a conclusion?
What does it mean to you to 'realize the whole'? The way you're talking about it doesn't sound like any Truth realization I recognize.
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Too bad. 