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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 2:33:07 GMT
If you're spiritually evolved you're supposed to be non-judgmental. Lol. You are quoting Niz. He was very judgmental in throwing people out of his satsangs, especially followers of Osho. 😆 I suppose the question then is ‘who is judging?’ ‘Who has a problem with it?’ There’s no way out🤪. Enlightenment- travelling lighter.. that’s all I guess. It's when you discover you are not looking for a way out because you are quite happy being the one who is judging or doing or thinking. |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 2:41:29 GMT
I suppose the question then is ‘who is judging?’ ‘Who has a problem with it?’ There’s no way out🤪. Enlightenment- travelling lighter.. that’s all I guess. It's when you discover you are not looking for a way out because you are quite happy being the one who is judging or doing or thinking. Mmm yes I know there is resistance when we perceive the ‘judger’ as a problem but judgment that comes up and abides quickly and naturally is different to a constant daily judgment (i.e of the unfolding story). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 2:50:04 GMT
It's when you discover you are not looking for a way out because you are quite happy being the one who is judging or doing or thinking. Mmm yes I know there is resistance when we perceive the ‘judger’ as a problem but judgment that comes up and abides quickly and naturally is different to a constant daily judgment (i.e of the unfolding story). When there is an expansion of awareness then what appears in mind does not leave impressions. Thoughts become like water off a duck's back. Mental activity becomes much more quiescent. But the individual is still there engaged in the world. I keep saying it's not the personal individual that's the problem it's the lack of knowing the fundamental essence of what we are which is awareness and when one becomes established in awareness then everything else just takes care of itself. We don't need to analyze thinking. We don't need to analyze the personal and impose concepts on it about it's nature. Because what is natural takes care of itself. |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 2:50:06 GMT
Great point. For one who no longer will experience much impact either way things go, it makes sense there will be less interest and impetus to get involved in the story. Degree of interest is impacted by personal circumstance. yeah, I think that's basically it. I asked him directly, he said he stopped paying interest a long ago whrn he realised there was too much suffering. Again, that’s my point, I guess. There are always things going on ‘out there’ and always will be. |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 2:54:43 GMT
Mmm yes I know there is resistance when we perceive the ‘judger’ as a problem but judgment that comes up and abides quickly and naturally is different to a constant daily judgment (i.e of the unfolding story). When there is an expansion of awareness then what appears in mind does not leave impressions. Thoughts become like water off a duck's back. Mental activity becomes much more quiescent. But the individual is still there engaged in the world. I keep saying it's not the personal individual that's the problem it's the lack of knowing the fundamental essence of what we are which is awareness and when one becomes established in awareness then everything else just takes care of itself. We don't need to analyze thinking. We don't need to analyze the personal and impose concepts on it about it's nature. Because what is natural takes care of itself. Yes agree with that and I hate to talk about ‘time’.. but relatively perhaps that’s what is needed for me. There have been considerable changes here. When I observe most thoughts are just old habbits and are quickly seen through. |
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Post by ghostofmuttley on Jan 10, 2022 3:53:50 GMT
The common state is one form of consensus trance or another, and it's possible for someone to realize that this is the state that they're in. It's easy to see what "consensus trance" means in the extremes: war, for instance, and the scamdemic is a form of "information war", where we can see this happening from the outside, looking in as it happens to others. People caught up in cults that literally capture and exploit them are another. There are all matter of degrees of it, such as forming a distorted image of a political figure, for example, or simply how a parent might condition a child to succeed in life.
But is waking up to one dream, always just the start of another dream? This is a version of the existential question. It has no definitive answer of mind, for the mind applied deeply to it will answer both yes, and no. The conflict can be resolved in some specific contexts, but there is no generalized resolution.
Nonduality becomes relevant in consideration of the existential question. There is no dreamer, and no dream. The existential dilemma does have a final resolution, but that resolution, is the great mystery.
The reason I ask, is because I attend regular Satsangs with Sailor Bob and I have the good fortune of 1:1s with him. He doesn’t entertain this stuff much at all. Not saying he doesn’t have an opinion but he told me he realised that it’s all suffering, so why go there? Just be present and whatever arises will arise as nobody is doing it anyhow. Yet here we have several of us who have seen ‘truth’ and yet continue to explore the story. I can’t pretend to look at it in ‘presence’ all the time. The story of ‘I’ and with it some subtle fears of a dystopian future, frustration of those not seeing it, a vaccine that might hurt people and a fear (which really is all love) for my girl’s future. When I remember my true nature all really is well. And, then, there is the Bhagavad Gita. Arjuna doesn't want to fight because he sees himself in the other, but Krishna both doubles down on the true nature of things and tells him that the fight is just another facet of that.
Or as the Buddist's say, the first noble truth (by my understanding), is "there is suffering". Bob's right that they are suffering, but, who are they, and who are you? This is the existential question. If you see yourself suffering in engaging about this, then, that's the height of self-honesty, and also, an opportunity, for you, to face the existential question, directly, head on.
And even some of the warriors, the one's who have never realized the truth, they've detached so completely from their own pain that they're simply unaware of the suffering, both theirs, and that they apparently cause. What is the difference between them and Arjuna, after Krishna has enlightened him? Do not approach that question with either intellect, or emotion. There is no making sense of the exploration, not for everyone. As you yourself put it, you are being lived, as is everyone else, regardless of whether they've realized that truth, or not.
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 3:58:31 GMT
The reason I ask, is because I attend regular Satsangs with Sailor Bob and I have the good fortune of 1:1s with him. He doesn’t entertain this stuff much at all. Not saying he doesn’t have an opinion but he told me he realised that it’s all suffering, so why go there? Just be present and whatever arises will arise as nobody is doing it anyhow. Yet here we have several of us who have seen ‘truth’ and yet continue to explore the story. I can’t pretend to look at it in ‘presence’ all the time. The story of ‘I’ and with it some subtle fears of a dystopian future, frustration of those not seeing it, a vaccine that might hurt people and a fear (which really is all love) for my girl’s future. When I remember my true nature all really is well. And, then, there is the Bhagavad Gita. Arjuna doesn't want to fight because he sees himself in the other, but Krishna both doubles down on the true nature of things and tells him that the fight is just another facet of that.
Or as the Buddist's say, the first noble truth (by my understanding), is "there is suffering". Bob's right that they are suffering, but, who are they, and who are you? This is the existential question. If you see yourself suffering in engaging about this, then, that's the height of self-honesty, and also, an opportunity, for you, to face the existential question, directly, head on.
And even some of the warriors, the one's who have never realized the truth, they've detached so completely from their own pain that they're simply unaware of the suffering, both theirs, and that they apparently cause. What is the difference between them and Arjuna, after Krishna has enlightened him? Do not approach that question with either intellect, or emotion. There is no making sense of the exploration, not for everyone. As you yourself put it, you are being lived, as is everyone else, regardless of whether they've realized that truth, or not.
Agree with all. Bob doesn’t deny that something may arise. If you find yourself at a march, that’s what’s happening but it’s more the constant mental chatter about out there. I have noticed huge changes though, for example, my friend just asked me to listen to a guy who is talking about how hard the life will be for the unvac’d etc and I refused to listen. I told her that that to me is a fear based story of ‘what if’s’. I don’t know what I’ll do if that happens and maybe I’d just get vac’d. so in that sense I am desling with things as they arise and I know that a year ago i was in extreme fear and what ifs.. It’s all oneness true. |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 4:10:11 GMT
PEACE DEPENDS ON NOTHING
-John McIntosh
-Fighting for Peace EXPANDS discord.
-Working for Peace EXPANDS the experience of its lack.
-Genuine Peace ‘passes understanding’ because understanding is of the false-self-mind, which analyzes.
-Peace cannot be held in ‘relationship’ to anything else such as war, chaos, stress, confusion, etc., because IT ‘has’ no opposite and stands alone … another name for ONE or SELF [the Real YOU].
-YOU cannot ‘have’ Peace because what can be ‘had’ can also be taken away and Peace is eternal. Peace ‘is’ Who You Are and is ever-Present.
-You ‘as’ YOU … the Real YOU, can only be AWARE of the Peace YOU ‘are’. The false self [body- mind-identity (person)] can never be Aware of genuine Peace because it is an illusory existence ‘based-on’ the belief in separation. Balance is the closest the false self can come to Real Peace.
-Peace depends on ‘nothing’, meaning it relies on or rests on nothing ‘outside’ IT SELF since there ‘is’ nothing ‘outside’ ONE. Emptiness ‘is’ nothing-ness and the absence of the individual-personal-identity reveals the ONE SELF.
-Returning to the Awareness of the Peace You Are, occurs effortlessly and automatically when the person dissolves back into the ONE SELF.
John McIntosh
(Just saw this and thought this was relevant here).
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Post by ghostofmuttley on Jan 10, 2022 4:11:52 GMT
If you don't like what's going on that means you identify with what's going on. If the tyranny is unfolding with absolute perfection you could decide to send in a seal team to take out the tyrants and hope that unfolds with absolute perfection also. That’s what I mean. Am not ok with what I see. There’s judgment. Who is judging? The real power and purpose of the existential question is in the asking, nothing more, nothing less. At this point, once you reach it, the next question is, how do you propose to answer it? |
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Post by ghostofmuttley on Jan 10, 2022 4:14:18 GMT
If you're spiritually evolved you're supposed to be non-judgmental. Lol. You are quoting Niz. He was very judgmental in throwing people out of his satsangs, especially followers of Osho. 😆 I suppose the question then is ‘who is judging?’ ‘Who has a problem with it?’ There’s no way out🤪. Enlightenment- travelling lighter.. that’s all I guess.  .. nope, there ain't! ..  .. " suffer! suffer!"
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.. nope, there ain't! .. 
.. "suffer! suffer!"