Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jan 10, 2022 0:26:03 GMT
I think it depends what you mean by 'pulled in.' The moment suffering arises, wakefulness is not....the dream has sucked you in. There's an important difference between interest in the story vs. becoming completely sucked into the story. Being awake does not mean a cessation of interest in/engagment with the material world per se, but it does mean an absence of suffering for/because of that interest. What ceases is identification with the limited/bounded, which means, appearances of tyranny and such, even though they are not 'personally liked,' are couched in an overriding seeing of fundamental perfection. I might not like the fact that tyrants are trying to take over the world, but ultimately, I know it's all unfolding in absolute perfection. Whatever is presently appearing is perfectly what it is. Not a hair out of place. It's that seeing/realization of fundamental perfection that limits the depth of 'hold/pull' the story has. In other words, when the place of seeing shifts from the eyes of a limited SVP, to beyond, there's no longer the overlay of imagined separation/limitation heaped on top of the flow of naturally arising/ebbing feelings that then drag them down into suffering... absent that overlay (which is really noneother than the overlay of identification with a separately existent entity) there may still be feelings of excitement, concern, annoyance, not-liking, etc, but they arise and then easily flow on through...presence is always but a breath away should a fleeting sense of concern begin to deepen and take hold. The appearing character arises hand in hand with specific personality traits, likes and dislikes that very much continue on post SR. Interest goes where it goes and it cannot be predicted if or how interests will change after awakening. I know for me, my kids remain my strongest/deepest attachment...that I could somehow become so awake that I'd lose interest in their lives and well-being, is one I cannot imagine...there would have to be a monumental personality change for that to happen. What's happening right now in the world is something that most of us have never before experienced....We're observing a monumental shift in power.....to NOT have any interest in it seems rather odd to me, regardless of how enlightened one may be...I get the sense that some purposefully stay away from it, not due to lack of interest, but more due to fear of being pulled in too deep. For those that see/sense this is all ultimately leading to a better, more conscious and loving world, what's currently happening is more just a pathway to that...a necessary evil sort of thing that will ultimately pave the way to something much better. That said, I think it's normal at times to be aghast at times at the depth of the lies and tyranny....concerned somewhat about how far things might go in terms of affecting daily freedoms we've taken for granted....as well as excited about what's to come and how it will come about. I think you answered me below and I know you and I have discussed this outside of here too but I suppose personally there are times where I am triggered or feel a sense of fear. Am certainly not at peace when I entertain where it could be going but when I compare to many I see who believe in anything without question or those who I know to be depressed or convinced the v will kill them, I’m certainly not there either. I also know of ‘enlighted’ or self-realized folk who are fully vaccinated. I know quite a few. Those people sense that this is a power play but they don’t buy into much of the other stuff and I doubt they’d spend hours researching or watching videos about it. There’s many religious folk who are following this side of the story too, I’m curious about that. Is it revelations or not being in fear? Freedom over fear?? There's 2 people that I know, that....for a long time....didn't have the vaccine. And then they did. I've noted a change in their attitude since then....one of them in particular, I was quite shocked by the change....actually supporting vaccine passes. Maybe it's different for these enlightened folks. I would bet that Byron Katie....whether she's had the vax or not (and I would strongly guess that she has) would have zero interest in the story one way or another. Sailor Bob....at his age....hard to imagine him getting involved in the story, whether he's had it or not. But the younger ones....maybe with children to consider......maybe their focus would be different if they were on the 'other side of the fence'.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,727
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 0:29:11 GMT
I think you answered me below and I know you and I have discussed this outside of here too but I suppose personally there are times where I am triggered or feel a sense of fear. Am certainly not at peace when I entertain where it could be going but when I compare to many I see who believe in anything without question or those who I know to be depressed or convinced the v will kill them, I’m certainly not there either. I also know of ‘enlighted’ or self-realized folk who are fully vaccinated. I know quite a few. Those people sense that this is a power play but they don’t buy into much of the other stuff and I doubt they’d spend hours researching or watching videos about it. There’s many religious folk who are following this side of the story too, I’m curious about that. Is it revelations or not being in fear? Freedom over fear?? There's 2 people that I know, that....for a long time....didn't have the vaccine. And then they did. I've noted a change in their attitude since then....one of them in particular, I was quite shocked by the change....actually supporting vaccine passes. Maybe it's different for these enlightened folks. I would bet that Byron Katie....whether she's had the vax or not (and I would strongly guess that she has) would have zero interest in the story one way or another. Sailor Bob....at his age....hard to imagine him getting involved in the story, whether he's had it or not. But the younger ones....maybe with children to consider......maybe their focus would be different if they were on the 'other side of the fence'. Yes, I know Jeff Vandeclute has (less well known) and I know others that I won’t mention publicly here. I think to travel and also accepting ‘what is’. I’ve played with the idea myself until the boosters came out, then I thought, that now means 3 or 4 shots! No thanks! I agree, I notice a weird change too in some folk although one has switched from vaccinated to anti-vac. I’ve seen many acts of unity and kindness so far. I.e people changing venues for events etc
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Jan 10, 2022 0:41:16 GMT
There's 2 people that I know, that....for a long time....didn't have the vaccine. And then they did. I've noted a change in their attitude since then....one of them in particular, I was quite shocked by the change....actually supporting vaccine passes. Maybe it's different for these enlightened folks. I would bet that Byron Katie....whether she's had the vax or not (and I would strongly guess that she has) would have zero interest in the story one way or another. Sailor Bob....at his age....hard to imagine him getting involved in the story, whether he's had it or not. But the younger ones....maybe with children to consider......maybe their focus would be different if they were on the 'other side of the fence'. Yes, I know Jeff Vandeclute has (less well known) and I know others that I won’t mention publicly here. I think to travel and also accepting ‘what is’. I’ve played with the idea myself until the boosters came out, then I thought, that now means 3 or 4 shots! No thanks! I agree, I notice a weird change too in some folk although one has switched from vaccinated to anti-vac. I’ve seen many acts of unity and kindness so far. I.e people changing venues for events etc yes, there's loads that have now switched from vaccinated to unvaccinated (and changed their attitude). I've asked myself....if I had it, would I still experience the same inclination to do all this, and also continue to support those that are being demonized? Truth is, no I probably wouldn't. And that's what makes me strongly believe that having the vax isn't JUST about having the vax, there's a psychological component to it too, there's an inevitable 'side' taken, an unconscious contract is signed. I have tremendous respect for those that have had 2 and say 'No' to the 3rd or whatever. That psychological shift isn't a small thing. I guess it's easier if they were self-aware enough with the first 2, to know they were being manipulated, and were already uncomfortable. We all know Spira had it, and then held a satsang for the vaccinated only. In his mind, I'm sure he wasn't doing anything 'wrong' at all. and I don't think it's because he's enlightened', it's because when you have the vax, you sign that psychological contract. As said, those that do it unwillingly initially, and with self-awareness, are those that are most likely to break the contract.
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Jan 10, 2022 1:11:58 GMT
And what we are seeing now, is a weakening of the contract. Many people are beginning to think....'will I want 6 jabs in 2 years?!'. The flaws of the vax are undeniable at this point, even the most hardcore of vax supporters knows that real world data shows how leaky the vaccines are. They know the jabbed still spread a lot. They know that efficacy doesn't last long. They know that many jabbed folks still have symptoms. It all weakens the contract i.e it becomes harder to justify...or even just 'go along with'.... marginalization of the unjabbed.
The 'early treatment' issue is a huge one, that would undermine the contract loads.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 1:18:42 GMT
Sorry, kind of messing with you there.. I wasn't asking anything truth..the concept, means nothing really We do a lot of conceptualizing here ah...you were being a trickster! And I missed 30 seconds of Cobra Kai to reply to your message! Oh sorry, but 'pause' is not available in your area? Speaking of area.. what town or point of interest is near you? (I like looking at places in the Wander app on the VR goggles) (And anyone else here as well, if you feel like it.. )
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Post by Figgles on Jan 10, 2022 1:18:45 GMT
I think it depends what you mean by 'pulled in.' The moment suffering arises, wakefulness is not....the dream has sucked you in. There's an important difference between interest in the story vs. becoming completely sucked into the story. Being awake does not mean a cessation of interest in/engagment with the material world per se, but it does mean an absence of suffering for/because of that interest. What ceases is identification with the limited/bounded, which means, appearances of tyranny and such, even though they are not 'personally liked,' are couched in an overriding seeing of fundamental perfection. I might not like the fact that tyrants are trying to take over the world, but ultimately, I know it's all unfolding in absolute perfection. Whatever is presently appearing is perfectly what it is. Not a hair out of place. It's that seeing/realization of fundamental perfection that limits the depth of 'hold/pull' the story has. In other words, when the place of seeing shifts from the eyes of a limited SVP, to beyond, there's no longer the overlay of imagined separation/limitation heaped on top of the flow of naturally arising/ebbing feelings that then drag them down into suffering... absent that overlay (which is really noneother than the overlay of identification with a separately existent entity) there may still be feelings of excitement, concern, annoyance, not-liking, etc, but they arise and then easily flow on through...presence is always but a breath away should a fleeting sense of concern begin to deepen and take hold. The appearing character arises hand in hand with specific personality traits, likes and dislikes that very much continue on post SR. Interest goes where it goes and it cannot be predicted if or how interests will change after awakening. I know for me, my kids remain my strongest/deepest attachment...that I could somehow become so awake that I'd lose interest in their lives and well-being, is one I cannot imagine...there would have to be a monumental personality change for that to happen. What's happening right now in the world is something that most of us have never before experienced....We're observing a monumental shift in power.....to NOT have any interest in it seems rather odd to me, regardless of how enlightened one may be...I get the sense that some purposefully stay away from it, not due to lack of interest, but more due to fear of being pulled in too deep. For those that see/sense this is all ultimately leading to a better, more conscious and loving world, what's currently happening is more just a pathway to that...a necessary evil sort of thing that will ultimately pave the way to something much better. That said, I think it's normal at times to be aghast at times at the depth of the lies and tyranny....concerned somewhat about how far things might go in terms of affecting daily freedoms we've taken for granted....as well as excited about what's to come and how it will come about. I think you answered me below and I know you and I have discussed this outside of here too but I suppose personally there are times where I am triggered or feel a sense of fear. Am certainly not at peace when I entertain where it could be going but when I compare to many I see who believe in anything without question or those who I know to be depressed or convinced the v will kill them, I’m certainly not there either. I also know of ‘enlighted’ or self-realized folk who are fully vaccinated. I know quite a few. Those people sense that this is a power play but they don’t buy into much of the other stuff and I doubt they’d spend hours researching or watching videos about it. There’s many religious folk who are following this side of the story too, I’m curious about that. Is it revelations or not being in fear? Freedom over fear?? I don't think the difference in the interest level of folks is necessarily tied to their awake/asleep-ness. I suspect it's more about personality. I've always found myself interested in issues of integrity....fairness....authority overstepping....I've always enjoyed challenging authority....trying to help others to look at things in different ways...a bit of a rebel against the status quo, by nature i think. What's happening right now checks all those boxes and then some.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 10, 2022 1:21:27 GMT
I think you answered me below and I know you and I have discussed this outside of here too but I suppose personally there are times where I am triggered or feel a sense of fear. Am certainly not at peace when I entertain where it could be going but when I compare to many I see who believe in anything without question or those who I know to be depressed or convinced the v will kill them, I’m certainly not there either. I also know of ‘enlighted’ or self-realized folk who are fully vaccinated. I know quite a few. Those people sense that this is a power play but they don’t buy into much of the other stuff and I doubt they’d spend hours researching or watching videos about it. There’s many religious folk who are following this side of the story too, I’m curious about that. Is it revelations or not being in fear? Freedom over fear?? There's 2 people that I know, that....for a long time....didn't have the vaccine. And then they did. I've noted a change in their attitude since then....one of them in particular, I was quite shocked by the change....actually supporting vaccine passes. Maybe it's different for these enlightened folks. I would bet that Byron Katie....whether she's had the vax or not (and I would strongly guess that she has) would have zero interest in the story one way or another. Sailor Bob....at his age....hard to imagine him getting involved in the story, whether he's had it or not. But the younger ones....maybe with children to consider......maybe their focus would be different if they were on the 'other side of the fence'. Great point. For one who no longer will experience much impact either way things go, it makes sense there will be less interest and impetus to get involved in the story. Degree of interest is impacted by personal circumstance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 1:21:52 GMT
Now you've sequed to "lies"? You've changed the subject. I haven’t done anything. Just be specific. What’s hocus pocus? Magical thinking. Thinking thinking thinking .. from dawn to dusk
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Jan 10, 2022 1:25:41 GMT
ah...you were being a trickster! And I missed 30 seconds of Cobra Kai to reply to your message! Oh sorry, but 'pause' is not available in your area? Speaking of area.. what town is near you? (I like looking at places in the Wander app on the VR goggles) (And anyone else here as well, if you feel like it.. ) I was watching it with family....they don't like hitting pause, just coz I've got ever-so-important messages to write It's fine, really. Look for Thornhill, in Dumfries and Galloway, it's my local town where I can get a few groceries, it's pretty small, but nice, won't take long to look round!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2022 1:29:25 GMT
I’d like to start a chat here: It’s still a struggle for me to understand the pull into this particular story when interest in most stories, beliefs, mind chatter is all but gone. When you think about it, is it any different to law of attraction, astrology or anything else going on in the world? Famine? Animal rights etc? Why are non-dualists pulled in here? It’s all seen to be ‘one’. No other. No out there, no in here. What does wakefulness truly mean? The way I see it all, is that there are 2 kinds of spiritual path (though everyone's is unique). There's a non-duality pathless path, and a path of mastery (or 'reality creation'). The path of duality or Bhakti is the most widely practiced path in the world, even in India, not non-duality.
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