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Post by Figgles on Dec 5, 2023 2:39:01 GMT
Yup, totally agree on both counts. Folks who don't have a lot of direct experience with kids often romanticize childhood in their attempts to describe their conceptualized views of what it means to be free/liberated.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 11, 2023 3:12:41 GMT
And who/what is this "You" that "needs to look at the physical-reality that it perceives"? Is it something beyond that "mirror/perceived physical reality" or is it a facet of it?
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Post by Figgles on Dec 12, 2023 1:31:36 GMT
 The 'knowing/realization' of existence/existing is not a "something known by a some-body." It's an imminent, direct seeing, by no-one/no-thing. I know it's really difficult to grasp that when you're full-on, completely identified with the apparent me character...what's required to grasp this, even conceptually, is at least some semblance of a reference for seeing 'beyond/prior to experience/mind.' First of all, do you actually think that such a belief can simply be "chosen" because of some silly idea of an "upside/downside"? Take some time to look into what comprises a "belief." It's not something you "choose." Beliefs are conditioned/cultivated....comprised of more than just that basic, presenting idea and whether or not it sounds nice or not. And really, what would be the "downside" anyway to not "believing in death" if it's the case that the me character/mind and all it's relative story, continues on post bodily death? Is God gonna beat you up because you were wrong?  Just because the me character is an appearance only, absent inherent existence, does not mean that it's impossible for the "me story" to continue on post bodily death....it's only if experience is tied a living body/brain that that would be so....I'm guessing you think it is?
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Post by Figgles on Dec 23, 2023 20:52:06 GMT
Unless there's been a trip all the way up and back down again to 2nd mountain, where the inherent emptiness of all that temporally appears has been realized...where it's seen that no-thing that appears exists in it's own right, but rather, arises within/to that which does exist/abide, unchanging, your "I am the body-mind, AND all that IS," is still going to equal "identification" with limitation/boundary/some-thing-ness.
The conceptual understanding that I am an extension of that which does not change, and thereby, I have realized "Not-two," is a false awakening....true awakening dissolves not only identification with any thing that appears but also identification with "Source"....this is where get folks (like ZD) who conceptualize the pointer "the infinite" and in doing so, they identify as a someone/something that IS infinite.
The true realization of 'the infinite' dissolves all identification and renders the appearing me character/body/mind as a temporal, empty appearance, arising within/to (dependent upon--not separate from) abiding Awareness.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 12, 2024 8:06:30 GMT
Yes.
Unfortunately, simply observing the sense of choosing from the same old position of seeing through the eyes of a separate, existent person is not going to dissolve the delusion. Unless the locus of seeing shifts from that limited viewpoint to beyond, the sense of volitionally choosing will remain primary....one may be able to conceptually grasp the idea that conditioning dictates choice, but that is merely a relative insight and not to be mistaken for the Absolute realization/seeing through of personal volition.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 12, 2024 22:17:26 GMT
Your entire response to Tenka in that post I pulled this quote from....excellent all around...an admiration for the patience in carefully responding to each delusional assertion.
The bolded jumped out in particular; Undoubtedly, in dharma battles on these forums, there is often that assumption that an assertion of having reference for a realization another has not had, involves an egoic flex. While that might indeed sometimes be the case, as you indicate there, it most certainly is not always.
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Post by ghostofmuttley on Jan 13, 2024 19:34:34 GMT
Your entire response to Tenka in that post I pulled this quote from....excellent all around...an admiration for the patience in carefully responding to each delusional assertion. The bolded jumped out in particular; Undoubtedly, in dharma battles on these forums, there is often that assumption that an assertion of having reference for a realization another has not had, involves an egoic flex. While that might indeed sometimes be the case, as you indicate there, it most certainly is not always. The damndest thing is that there is nothing that could potentially interest me more than the existential truth, but the realization of it didn't make me smarter or richer or thinner or whatevs. It's the realization of a "birthright" ( mindhook alert  ) that ain't mine nor yours nor noone else's. Inner peace is priceless, as in, it cannot be bought nor sold, and it's always and ever available to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Right here and now, in the eternal Present. At the zero cost of just .. well .. every thing. |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 13, 2024 20:00:38 GMT
Your entire response to Tenka in that post I pulled this quote from....excellent all around...an admiration for the patience in carefully responding to each delusional assertion. The bolded jumped out in particular; Undoubtedly, in dharma battles on these forums, there is often that assumption that an assertion of having reference for a realization another has not had, involves an egoic flex. While that might indeed sometimes be the case, as you indicate there, it most certainly is not always. The damndest thing is that there is nothing that could potentially interest me more than the existential truth, but the realization of it didn't make me smarter or richer or thinner or whatevs. It's the realization of a "birthright" ( mindhook alert ) that ain't mine nor yours nor noone else's. Inner peace is priceless, as in, it cannot be bought nor sold, and it's always and ever available to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Right here and now, in the eternal Present. At the zero cost of just .. well .. every thing. Perfectly put. And I think that's sometimes what really pisses off seekers....that pointer that it IS "ever available to anyone, anywhere, anytime...right here and now," but somehow they are missing it! The perfect analogy really is one of those illusion pics like the duck/bunny...or the dancer who can be seen (by some) to only be twirling one way....when you can't see it and are being told that with a shift of perspective, it IS there....you can see it, but here and now, you are NOT seeing it, it obviously can get frustrating.   |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 14, 2024 7:47:45 GMT
How 'bout this; The "whole moving flow" transcends (but also includes) the apparent "individuated moving flow"?
It might help Tenka (if you are truly interested in trying to understand) to think about SR as an abiding shift in vantage point vs. a "something seen" in a moment of seeing prior to mind.
It's impossible to see the "whole moving flow" when fully mired within the experience of "individuated moving flow." The experience of individuality...all things personal are couched within impersonal seeing...the ground is always there....can stand alone, but that experience of being an individual...a me character, is not...it comes and goes and when it comes/appears, it does so within/to/dependent upon the abiding ground.
The abiding ground is a vantage point...a 'locus' of seeing....and you'll have no reference for it if the individuated vantage point is primary.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 15, 2024 22:29:57 GMT
Well put.
Perfect description of this thread's title! What you're describing is a belief that I am enlightened, vs. actual enlightenment/wakefulness.
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I'll keep replying until I begin to suspect that it is the replies themselves that are the source of that satisfaction.
) that ain't mine nor yours nor noone else's. Inner peace is priceless, as in, it cannot be bought nor sold, and it's always and ever available to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Right here and now, in the eternal Present. At the zero cost of just .. well .. everything. 