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Post by Figgles on Nov 29, 2023 0:40:25 GMT
So....you deny that live content shifts between stuff that it liked/preferred and stuff that 'aint so much? That's all the "roller-coaster movement" is referencing.....the circumstances, personal judgments and feelings that go hand in hand with those, shifting up and down--moving between apparent polarities (to some degree). It's just a comment on a basic, apparent pattern within experience. Nothing more than that.
....in short, experientially speaking, as a me character, you win some, you lose some....it's just the way the cookie-crumbles....just the way experience is.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 29, 2023 0:42:43 GMT
Precisely.
I find it rather incredible that anyone over there is arguing against the easily observed ups/downs relative to ongoing experience.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 29, 2023 18:52:43 GMT
While inherent to SR is a groundedness in being so deep that it stands abiding even in the absence of all content, the aim of awakening to the Truth of Oneness is not to render all experiential content as completely insignificant and unworthy of caring about as you seem to be suggesting there, rather, it's about remaining grounded in/as being, AS the naturally inherent, apparent, ups/downs of life, complete with caring, likes/dislikes, preferences, values, judgments, continues on.
A life experience where the arising content has zero 'impact' in terms of feeling response to it...zero caring 'about' it, is not what 'being awake/SR' is referencing.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 29, 2023 21:48:57 GMT
It never is/was "witnessING" itself that's false or that needs to be seen through....we're really just talking Awareness OF content. What does need to be seen through is "the/a" witness It's entirely on par with the seeing through of the doer, the knower, the entity that is imagined to be behind all experience.....yes, the 'experiencer'....the perceiver...
Ultimately, You're adding legs to a snake there.....the moment there is "of"...a "something" that awareness is "seeing," is the moment appearance has arisen. There is really only Seeing....Being aware that abides....all the "of" stuff, minding...content...appearance only.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 2, 2023 18:44:25 GMT
That distinction is in the dream (self-help/psychology) and really has no bearing when it comes to what Nonduality is pointing to.
The mistaking of the phenomenal self as inherently existent in it's own right (separate,volitional) is what gets seen through in SR, and whether mind is relatively free of conditioning or relatively consciously aware/free of conditioning, is irrelevant, beyond of course, the conditionings that have imagined separation at their helm.
Conditioning, a lack of awareness as to those conditions and relative clarity are included under the umbrella of "what appears/perceivables/experiential content."
You're making the same mistake as ZD does when he conceptually dismisses discrete, distinct appearing 'things/objects' in favor of a 'field' that is comprised of all things, but with them now, 'unified/connected.' It's still very much 'in the dream' and in no way involves an actually seeing/realization that is 'beyond/prior to' content. That 'field' he insists upon, is entirely conceptual, but he's not seeing that.
Do you see that even in identifying with a 'self' that is relatively free of conditionings that could be said to hinge upon erroneous ideas, there is still an SVP being imagined there...? Thus....a delusion/illusion in play?
Working with personal conditionings that interfere with being more consciously aware...being a relatively 'mature' human adult, is of the real of psychology, not SR.
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Post by ghostofmuttley on Dec 3, 2023 23:17:11 GMT
It never is/was "witnessING" itself that's false or that needs to be seen through....we're really just talking Awareness OF content. What does need to be seen through is "the/a" witness It's entirely on par with the seeing through of the doer, the knower, the entity that is imagined to be behind all experience.....yes, the 'experiencer'....the perceiver... Ultimately, You're adding legs to a snake there.....the moment there is "of"...a "something" that awareness is "seeing," is the moment appearance has arisen. There is really only Seeing....Being aware that abides....all the "of" stuff, minding...content...appearance only. Yes, your crittersizm is valid here, and you've phrased WIBIGO quite well. Butt. When on dry land!  |
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Post by Figgles on Dec 3, 2023 23:27:58 GMT
It never is/was "witnessING" itself that's false or that needs to be seen through....we're really just talking Awareness OF content. What does need to be seen through is "the/a" witness It's entirely on par with the seeing through of the doer, the knower, the entity that is imagined to be behind all experience.....yes, the 'experiencer'....the perceiver... Ultimately, You're adding legs to a snake there.....the moment there is "of"...a "something" that awareness is "seeing," is the moment appearance has arisen. There is really only Seeing....Being aware that abides....all the "of" stuff, minding...content...appearance only. Yes, your crittersizm is valid here, and you've phrased WIBIGO quite well. Butt. When on dry land! Yup....Cool...point made...concessions to mind get made as we talked 'bout that which inherently defies words.   I've always thought it was the absence of legs that had me cringing at snakes....yikes...never knew such a thing was.....  |
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Post by ghostofmuttley on Dec 4, 2023 0:18:30 GMT
Yes, your crittersizm is valid here, and you've phrased WIBIGO quite well. Butt. When on dry land! Yup....Cool...point made...concessions to mind get made as we talked 'bout that which inherently defies words. I've always thought it was the absence of legs that had me cringing at snakes....yikes...never knew such a thing was..... That atrocity is far gross-y-er than just a garden variety snake.  Ew! make it go away!  |
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Post by Figgles on Dec 4, 2023 0:34:54 GMT
Yup....Cool...point made...concessions to mind get made as we talked 'bout that which inherently defies words. I've always thought it was the absence of legs that had me cringing at snakes....yikes...never knew such a thing was..... That atrocity is far gross-y-er than just a garden variety snake. Ew! make it go away! |
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Post by Figgles on Dec 4, 2023 23:06:38 GMT
Seeing through the illusion of the SVP takes care of any of those conditionings that had erroneously imagined separation/fundamental limitation at their crux. Any conditionings that are left behind are part and parcel of the realm of "empty perceivables/appearance only" and a non-issue because there's nothing there that is binding/limiting in a fundamental sense.
You clearly don't appreciate how encompassing and monumental the imagined SVP is in terms of all that comes with it and thus, how monumental the clearing out of previous baggage is, post SR....seeing through the SVP/all fundamental separation...seeing through the inherent existence re: everything that appears, takes care of All limiting thoughts/ideas and conditioning, that rode on the previous sense of separation...
Any conditionings that remain are unproblematic.
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But the bottom line is, there is a different way to "witness", that isn't false.
I've always thought it was the absence of legs that had me cringing at snakes....yikes...never knew such a thing was..... 
