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Post by Figgles on Oct 20, 2023 21:49:54 GMT
Damn...SDP! Very nicely put. Sifty is essentially, trying to guide a train to jump it's track and land on one going the other direction. Nice trick if you're a magician.  All of that getting ego to lie down business is "self-help" work....not Nonduality/realization. |
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Post by Figgles on Oct 28, 2023 20:28:09 GMT
For good reason.
True "surrender" is beyond trust or lack thereof that something will or won't happen. Sifty's assertion/comparison that surrender is akin to 'trusting your next breath will happen on it's own,' has no resemblance at all to what the term "surrender" generally references in Nonduality teachings/Truth-talk.
Trusting that the next breath will arise is akin to waving the white flag on a battlefield, whereas "surrender" or as E put it, "walking off the battlefield," entails an absence of interest...an absence based acceptance that whatever will be, will be, absent any sense/need/interest in manipulating it...or even "trusting/hoping" for it to go a particular way.
In surrender, there's no longer any 'dog in the fight.' There is simply a full acceptance/allowance, acquiescing to the general unfolding itself. Where there is "trust" there IS still very much a "dog in the fight."
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Post by Figgles on Nov 3, 2023 22:10:41 GMT
Those who have no reference for what it means to see from a position that is 'beyond/prior to mind,' tend to mistake the term 'prior to mind,' to simply mean, mind, somehow seeing beyond itself.
That's not it at all. Mind/minding/conceptualization, really IS transcended in Self realization/seeing through the separate (s)elf. There's no avoiding the 'informing of mind,' that follows as mind, naturally gets a hold of the absence and tries to re-frame experience around it....that's just what happens.
But don't mistake that informing of mind with the "prior to mind" seeing/realization. They are very different things.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 4, 2023 4:28:32 GMT
Most excellent metaphors/analogy. I recall you introducing the footprint in the sand one a ways back and immediately resonated with it...at that time, you gave the example of a footprint on a beach that immediately gets washed away by the wave as you described how feeling/emotion arises/falls in the awakened....so perfect.  |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 10, 2023 20:36:58 GMT
It sounds like you are conflating the 'shift' itself that is SR, with unfolding, life experience. That shift in locus of seeing that means an absence/seeing through of the SVP is indeed a definitive 'ending.'
The shift that is SR is not some process by degree, that continues to deepen and move along with unfolding experience. The shift itself, the absence of separation is not a constantly unfolding, ever-deepening process, as you seem to be describing it to be.
What 'does' continue, is the experiential/mind-informing aspects....new ways of pointing perhaps, finding new ways to talk about and think about that shift/absence.
It's very important for clarity's sake not to conflate the shift that is SR with the experiential/informing of mind aspects. Conflation of such seems to be rampant amidst seekers with a relatively strong conceptual grasp of Nonduality.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 13, 2023 18:29:36 GMT
So, in other words, appearance hints at it's own emptiness of inherent existence?  Would love to hear what specifically these relative, experiential, appearing 'shadows/hints' are. I'm guessing you won't share. You've made this assertion many times over the years and it is very telling. It indicates a failure to see through the entirety of the realm of perceivables, the relative, as devoid of it's own inherent existence. That which is appearance only holds no shadows, hints or bridges to that which lies prior to/beyond all concepts...beyond all appearance....beyond the relative. Only a profound shift in locus of seeing, away from the relative, to the Absolute, will suffice. Trying to discern shadows and hints of the fundamental Truth of "not-two" from within experience, is looking in entirely the wrong direction. Fundamental Truth of "not two" really IS fundamental....you're not even gonna get a hint/shadow of it unless the place of seeing shifts to the "fundamental" ground. |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 19, 2023 21:01:19 GMT
You are trying to grasp pointers to an absence, whilst anchored within the presence of identification with the Tenka, body/mind character.
Transcendence of mind does not mean what you think it means.
Transcendence of mind means that mind is no longer in the driver's seat as it was when the SVP was in play...it's the servant now, instead of the master....it means the primary locus is now abiding, unwavering Awareness, with all arisings, including mind, dependent upon that, arising within/to that, no separation....all essentially One.
To be free of mind does not require cessation of all minding...just the erroneous/false stuff that gets seen through in SR....just as to be free of (transcendent of) the world, does not mean the world must stop appearing....just a 'separate' world....the 'separation' was always only ever imagined (erroneously/falsely) but that 'sense' of separation that rides on that imagining, is powerful indeed....so much so that those fast asleep will fight and claw to try to keep that 'separate/volitional self' alive and valid, just as you are doing.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 21, 2023 4:07:54 GMT
I have come to see how this is incredibly important and the very interest in clearly seeing that, to accurately, clearly discriminate between them, is an auspicious precursor & correlate when it comes to the shift in seeing that is SR.
The failure to clearly see the ground/unchanging for what it is, and then to see that which arises experientially, absent muddling and mixing them up, is what's behind so much of the nonsense posts that I've been responding to.
I think so many seekers conflate subtle arising 'senses' with unchanging Awareness....& then, it's very easy to go on from there to erroneously include all myriad of subtle appearance (qualities/properties, usually) under the umbrella of "unchanging ground."
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Post by Figgles on Nov 21, 2023 19:07:27 GMT
Yes, to deduce or conclude that the SVP is illusory/a delusion is not enough. Only a realization (shift in locus of seeing from within the story to beyond/prior to) will do.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 24, 2023 6:28:20 GMT
Actually, it's a seeing/realization that there is no existent entity, no-thing, no-one at all, who is "experiencing,".....just "experience" absent an existent object that is an "experiencer."
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Would love to hear what specifically these relative, experiential, appearing 'shadows/hints' are. I'm guessing you won't share.