muttley
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Post by muttley on Mar 1, 2021 6:16:17 GMT
Reality, is neither objective, nor subjective, and as the Buddhist's say, form is emptiness, emptiness is form.
How does that relate to Esponja's post? Shhhhhh. Don' worry 'bout it 'hun.  |
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Mar 1, 2021 6:20:17 GMT
Interesting though, that you didn't answer the direct question I posed to you here. If you had, you would have to admit that most of what you wrote to me in this sub-thread of dialog since that was based on your misunderstanding and reading past what I'd written. This is the question? "Did I contradict what she said, or did I affirm it?"
You neither contradicted nor affirmed. You were addressing a different idea than what she was espousing. You 'missed' what she was saying. Quite clearly incorrect: I don’t even know what exists outside my room unless my mind tells me. Right |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Mar 1, 2021 6:28:26 GMT
‘By’ not ‘for’ Change beliefs at subconscious ‘appears’ to make a difference in life. You can't even know whether other people exists, they could be figments of your consciousness. The people those who are in your life are actually creation of you. Change your belief you would change the people in your life too. But changing the belief is not your hand obviously. Again, talking from different p.o.v. |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Mar 1, 2021 6:32:23 GMT
I’m not ‘stable’ in this knowing yet, however, it seems to be available when I look. All I find is an ever present emptiness, like a movie screen or the sky. Everything appearing in it. So everything is made of it. I am both nothing and everything. No idea if that answers your question. Its all ideas, beliefs and concepts other than this. Is the feel of the Earth on your body a concept? Does that originate within the four walls of your room? Just as you used those walls as a way to describe, that's how I'm using the notions of the Earth and your body. It's not the concepts of them that are important.
What you describe is a marvelous state of consciousness. A visceral, felt sense of the ephemeral nature of the world of the senses. I get that, I really do.  You have a very intellectual way of writing and I guess it’s hard for us to always use language, sometimes I don’t quite understand what you are saying, I just see is as my grasp of the English language not being quite as good, but I do understand you here👏🏼. |
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Post by Gopal on Mar 1, 2021 6:36:45 GMT
Is the feel of the Earth on your body a concept? Does that originate within the four walls of your room? Just as you used those walls as a way to describe, that's how I'm using the notions of the Earth and your body. It's not the concepts of them that are important.
What you describe is a marvelous state of consciousness. A visceral, felt sense of the ephemeral nature of the world of the senses. I get that, I really do. You have a very intellectual way of writing and I guess it’s hard for us to always use language, sometimes I don’t quite understand what you are saying, I just see is as my grasp of the English language not being quite as good, but I do understand you here👏🏼. Where are you from? |
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Mar 1, 2021 6:37:36 GMT
Perfectly put. & that said, there does seem to be a certain 'stability' in the very fact that your interest in that 'looking' that continues to arise, then sees that 'ever present emptiness.' A person just cannot contrive that interest. It's either there or it isn't. A good Adya quote that I think applies here: "Some teachers would say that if awakening vacillates, then it is not true awakening. I'm not one of them, for reasons that's I've already described. If we have seen the truth, we have seen the truth. Whether we've seen it for two seconds or for two thousand years, it's the same truth." Adyanshanti - The End Of Your World (Fwiw, I'd highly recommend that book as in it he is specifically speaking to the phenomena of "I've got it...I lost it,"....lots of talk about the initial 'transition' after awakening.) Will buy it. About half way through Adya’s audio book. Some of it is confusing me. The part where he speaks about the velcro thoughts/beliefs sucking you back in. Isn’t an awakening it?? No more having to work within the dream at a better life? Interestingly, the modality I use currently looks at current triggers and transforms them in the now and in the past. Adya talks about this too. |
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Mar 1, 2021 6:38:35 GMT
Reality, is neither objective, nor subjective, and as the Buddhist's say, form is emptiness, emptiness is form.
Reality is subjective. The question arises whether we are receiving the perception or creating the perception, first one assumes the objective reality and the second one assumes the subjective reality. Appearences appear in ways that manifest as both subjective, and objective. E' coined a term in the past, "radical subjectivity". But you see, it doesn't mean "subjective" in the sense of appearances appearing, it's more a pointer to how there is no "God" in the way that you're thinking of "creation", and the only awareness here, is you.
None of these appearances will help you find reality, but ideas about appearances can help obscure reality. The only reality, is you. Not the personal you, not what you might imagine as an impersonal "you", either. Just what you're aware of with one, simple, quiet breath. That's all. |
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Mar 1, 2021 6:39:36 GMT
Is the feel of the Earth on your body a concept? Does that originate within the four walls of your room? Just as you used those walls as a way to describe, that's how I'm using the notions of the Earth and your body. It's not the concepts of them that are important.
What you describe is a marvelous state of consciousness. A visceral, felt sense of the ephemeral nature of the world of the senses. I get that, I really do. You have a very intellectual way of writing and I guess it’s hard for us to always use language, sometimes I don’t quite understand what you are saying, I just see is as my grasp of the English language not being quite as good, but I do understand you here👏🏼. |
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Mar 1, 2021 6:43:05 GMT
Reality is subjective. The question arises whether we are receiving the perception or creating the perception, first one assumes the objective reality and the second one assumes the subjective reality. How about neither of those options? There is no-one/no-thing receiving perception nor creating it. Just perception/creation. Yup. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 2, 2021 2:30:47 GMT
I didn't say you fail to grasp 'emptiness.' My point was that you failed to grasp what Esponja was saying.  I grasped what she was saying just fine. You're projecting our disagreements onto my dialog with her. Agreed. But that still doesn't mean I was saying that YOU 'fail to grasp emptiness.' Seemed to me you were saying something more there though, than just that Esponja was clearly expressing emptiness. I actually didn't see you even mention that specific term til now. |
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I grasped what she was saying just fine. You're projecting our disagreements onto my dialog with her.