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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 16:32:22 GMT
Sorry...that sounds way too much to me as though you have personalized/objectified "awareness." Awareness is not a he/whom/someone/something that does stuff. Maybe we should ask Mr Awareness himself. Drive out Tenka out of you, you may have the chance of clear seeing!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 16:34:14 GMT
Interesting. But clearly, you can have it only one way, not both. I've called that internal conflict a form of insanity. It also strikes me as childish; wanting to have your cake and eat it too. The one way is the way it's happening. It includes conlict of interest. When I was younger I certainly was able to 'decide' and 'commit' to one interest . Now the interests play out, and i gently participate with them. I observe, intend, act but don't 'decide' as such. I generally look for and follow the path of least resistance How do you 'let go' of conflicting interest? How do you tell the other interests to go away? How do you control them? I would say interests usually have to 'wear themselves out' one way or another. Dominant interest always wins. Suppressing interest doesnt work, though suppressing IS an interest. That's exactly correct! That's not in our hand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 16:44:59 GMT
I don't know whether to believe you or not. If it is that easy then everybody must have chosen to not to smoke very easily. I find it is pretty hard to choose against my desire(smoking is not the case for me because I have never smoked). If I'm right about the unconsciousness connection, it's not easy to get into the place of no split mind. I'm seeing now that the split mind requires an unconscious process. The internal conflict of self against self must take place unconsciously as the conscious cannot deceive themselves so as to set up that false conflict/division. Okay, I think I am getting you so clearly now. I thought I understood what you mean by split mind so far but actually I did not. And even I am making sense out of why you asked a question as to what if I desire to have the sex with neighbors wife, that question clearly makes sense now.
Here let me tell you what you actually meant.
You say when we have the conflict desire, we have to let go of the one and choose the other one. It doesn't matter whether we are giving up the strongest one or lesser one, but giving up one and choosing the another one. Right? Did I get you clearly?
So you meant to say this fight happens when you make a choice of not to smoke? It continued for some days but you were stubborn always to make that one choice of not smoking? Slowly unconscious desire of smoking went away?I am just trying to understand you.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2020 23:34:23 GMT
Nobody can do that, that's what split mind is all about. If One can choose to not to smoke, then smoker can easily quit their smoking. but they can't because desire rises against their will. I don't really understand what he is talking about. I quit smoking without conflict once I decided I wanted to quit. I lost 50lb in less than 3 months without conflict, and all I was really doing was crave control research for a website I was working on. That was several years ago and I still haven't gained the weight back. So don't tell me it's impossible and nobody can do that. I'm beginning to think the difference is about living consciously. When you live consciously, you take personal responsibility for the way you live. Nothing is "hidden' in the unconscious that enables you to avoid responsibility. (To say something is beyond your power to do) Bingo with cherry! Cool story. I think you mentioned that many years ago and it was impressive then too. I've had similar experiences with quitting supposed 'habits.' One example; I recall being in gr. 8 and was at a school dance, slow dancing with some kid and I looked down at my hands on his shoulder's and it hit me how childish my hands looked with their nails, bitten to the quick. I'd bitten then since I was around 4-ish, but in that moment I simply decided I wanted to have lovely, long painted nails. I've never bitten them since. I recall a few moments while sitting in class....I started to raise my finger to my mouth, but then immediately, put it down in favor of the long nail pic....but other than that, no real 'pull' to even nibble. Within about a week and half, I had gorgeous long nails.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2020 23:38:03 GMT
I know how to let go of 'clinging' to the desire/interest....and if there are two conflicting desires, that's something I might do to assist the process, but I don't know how to let go of the desire itself. I know what it's like to 'ignore' a desire, or distract from it by 'committing', but as my spiritual path unfolded, my capacity to do either got less and less. As it got less, I would often spin between desires....like a cat that goes in, out, in, out. This spinning could be frustrating, and that's when i learned how to release clinging, so the desires can play out peacefully. These days I can still experience conflicting desires, but it's not much of a problem....less clinging, less beliefs about myself in relation to it. More cat like, but also more observational and understanding. I think this reply covers both of your messages about it. If you were able to let go of clinging to a desire, the desire would no longer be desired. There is not both a desire and a clinging to the desire. The presence of a desire implies a clinging that brings about desire and holds it in place. This isn't particularly subtle. It isn't some advanced spiritual process. It's mostly common sense. However, it might require that you not lie to yourself, and that might be the rub. Perfectly put. The 'desire' itself IS mind's clinging to what it think it needs to be at peace....to quell suffering.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2020 23:41:31 GMT
If you were able to let go of clinging to a desire, the desire would no longer be desired. There is not both a desire and a clinging to the desire. The presence of a desire implies a clinging that brings about desire and holds it in place.
This isn't particularly subtle. It isn't some advanced spiritual process. It's mostly common sense. However, it might require that you not lie to yourself, and that might be the rub. That could be true in your experience but definitely isn't in mine. I experience most desires without clinging. Are you then merely talking about an arising 'intent/interest' towards something...that is completely free of emotional neediness? If so, there would certainly be no 'split-mind' issue involved surrounding it.
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Aug 12, 2020 13:02:21 GMT
Does Mr Awareness like his popcorn buttered or unbuttered? Please don't say something which I haven't written. Perhaps you may replace the word 'he' with 'it', it might make sense for you. You've already tried eliminating personal pronouns in some of your posts. Mr It is still munching away at It's popcorn. What you need to do is change the way you conceptualize It.
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Aug 12, 2020 13:07:05 GMT
filled halfway...slathered in butter, then topped up with more popcorn, then slathered again...oh, & don't forget the salt! Tenka's spirit might have entered inside you and Enigma, Just check it, he is dangerous. You mean we might be p-p-p-p-possessed?
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Aug 12, 2020 13:25:45 GMT
Absolutely. Yes. Feeling is the language of God.So If I desire something so strongly, that's God's(Not external God) way of telling me that I will get it? Let's just say passion and belief are auspicious signs of what's to come.
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Aug 12, 2020 13:29:02 GMT
But universe does not equal Consciousness. The universe is an expression of Consciousness, not other than Consciousness but not the essence of Consciousness. The person is also Consciousness, but the person does not create. I place Consciousness as the ultimate witness so it's not a person for me. I usually use this word universe as a replacement of Consciousness. Fine. I don't see it that way. I agree to disagree.
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