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Post by Figgles on Apr 30, 2020 16:34:14 GMT
Sifty is working very hard to put 'surrender' (and realization!) in the hands of the person, when what surrender is, is the absence of the person. He keeps trying to create paths/processes that a person can do, to get rid of the person, when only realization will do. There is the absence of the person after the person has surrendered. The ego is the doer, the practiser. The person does not "DO" surrender. Surrender means the person has 'at least temporarily' slipped into the background. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 16:59:16 GMT
There is the absence of the person after the person has surrendered. The ego is the doer, the practiser. The person does not "DO" surrender. Surrender means the person has 'at least temporarily' slipped into the background. The person is the doer. If not then who surrenders? |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Apr 30, 2020 17:08:28 GMT
Sifty is working very hard to put 'surrender' (and realization!) in the hands of the person, when what surrender is, is the absence of the person. He keeps trying to create paths/processes that a person can do, to get rid of the person, when only realization will do. There is the absence of the person after the person has surrendered. The ego is the doer, the practiser. The person cannot surrender the person any more than mind can obliterate mind. |
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Post by Figgles on Apr 30, 2020 17:13:30 GMT
The person does not "DO" surrender. Surrender means the person has 'at least temporarily' slipped into the background. The person is the doer. If not then who surrenders? A perfect question for enquiry.  |
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Apr 30, 2020 17:16:33 GMT
I'm tired of telling you and Tenka I didn't say that. I'm going to start using an acronym; DST. That should save me an hour/day of typing.  Obviously, I was pointing out your flawful logic.
The bit about why you would want to practice being what you are already was of course a joke since you are not what you are already are in the state of ignorance even though you are. Obviously. Read your post again and see if you can find the logical error. "If there wasn't a desire to practice then obviously there would be no practice. But it's not the desire per se. That is the path. Otherwise a desire for donuts would do just as well." Oh, goody, a paradox. You are what you are, even in ignorance of that fact. There is no way to practice being what you are. It must be realized. A practice is done to accomplish something or to become something that you are not already. It is a mind game. |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Apr 30, 2020 17:19:15 GMT
The person does not "DO" surrender. Surrender means the person has 'at least temporarily' slipped into the background. The person is the doer. If not then who surrenders? Nobody does the surrender. The question is misconceived. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 17:20:26 GMT
There is the absence of the person after the person has surrendered. The ego is the doer, the practiser. The person cannot surrender the person any more than mind can obliterate mind. Yes of course the person can. You are being a person right now when you react to my comments. Be happy that you are a person. 😀 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 17:22:23 GMT
If you have a desire for donuts you will fulfil that desire by buying donuts. If there is a desire for spiritual practice you will fulfill it with spiritual practices.
The bit about why you would want to practice being what you are already was of course a joke since you are not what you are already are in the state of ignorance even though you are. Obviously. Read your post again and see if you can find the logical error. "If there wasn't a desire to practice then obviously there would be no practice. But it's not the desire per se. That is the path. Otherwise a desire for donuts would do just as well." Oh, goody, a paradox. You are what you are, even in ignorance of that fact. There is no way to practice being what you are. It must be realized. A practice is done to accomplish something or to become something that you are not already. It is a mind game. It must be realised. I agree. Then how? By spiritual practice. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 17:23:26 GMT
The person is the doer. If not then who surrenders? A perfect question for enquiry. And who asks it? I ask it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 17:27:36 GMT
The person is the doer. If not then who surrenders? Nobody does the surrender. The question is misconceived. That's nonsense. You surender, I surrender. Your reply is misconceived. The ego is the doer of practice. It is the ego that surrenders. |
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