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Post by Figgles on May 9, 2017 16:19:25 GMT
I see it more as 'witnessing happens,' but if we are identifying with/as 'witness,' that equals taking a step beyond unfettered Being into objectification, into conceputalizing and identifying. To say "I am THE WITNESS," in my estimation, is to create an object out of 'witnessing' itself. Identification is not a problem, who said Identification is the problem? Wrong identification is the problem because unfolding story sucks us there. You can't be without identification, You always identifies yourself to be a person or witness. Oh really, do you think so?? How do you define 'identification'? This is my definition, and reason why I do not agree that one always identifies with some-thing: Identification refers to a fundamental, pervasive sense/belief/knowing, that I am a particular something. To 'identify' is to equate beingness with thing-ness. Therefore, an absence of identification means that there is no sense of being as a particular some'thing'.....just unfettered being, absent any idea or question as to 'what-ness.'
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Post by Figgles on May 9, 2017 16:37:29 GMT
Oh you start to compare the dream now, that's not the point here, the point is unfolding story completely have the power to move you. You say you don't know how would feel when you witness the crucifixion because you have never seen it, you don't have to witness to know how that would feel. It's very obvious that you can't be in peace when unfolding story sucks. You say you can continue to witness no matter whatever happens infront of you, that's not true. Your realization has a direct connection with your movie. When you see through a particular illusion, your movie will be free of those illusion. The movie analogy you've been referencing is pretty much the same as the dream one, isn't it? Re: the bolded. No, not as YOU are defining peace. I clearly have a differing definition. The main issue for me is that one does not carried off into the story, losing sight of the fact that it is after all, just a story. That does not however mean that one is never moved by the story. How boring would life be if there was no involvement or engagement at all with story-lines? What I am calling 'The surface feelings' that arise as a result of watching another writhe in pain are going to be directly related to that appearance. The 'peace' I speak of, references a fundamental, abiding sense of 'goodness - all is well' that lies underneath that. The foundational absence of identification with a separate, limited, objectified, some-thing and the knowing that all is well, mitigates the surface arising feelings in that they have nothing to anchor upon...they arise and pass through. There is nothing problematic in that arising and passing through. I have not said that I would continue to purely witness no matter what happens in front of me, and fwiw, I don't see that as being something to strive for. I don't see any problem with feeling emotional discord to some degree, when something 'discordant' is perceived. In fact it would be really strange for one to perceive another person or animal writhing in pain, and feelings of aversion NOT to arise. I don't see that an absence of feeling about unwanted circumstances should become the goal. The snuffing out of those surface arising emotions are not necessary for one to have an overriding, abiding understanding that in the largest sense, all is well and good...that despite something discordant that may be currently appearing, Love prevails. Getting more into the whole issue of 'creation' though, I have noticed that It is rare for me to encounter appearances these days where something awful like that is happening to another..here my discord would be evoked......I rarely feel the pull to watch news or read newspapers, where most of those things present, and circumstances that arise just seem to be mostly devoid of anything that impacts me negatively....sure, it's all out there, should the interest arise to find it. The main point being, the "interest" that would align me with those negative perceptions that would result in negative responses, is simply not there. That to me, is evidence of LOA at it's best.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 16:58:00 GMT
Good points, all, figs. In my way of seeing it, we really don't give up the relative world at all in favor of empty-nothingingness, we simply stop identifying with 'change' is the way I relate with it. Yes, great way of putting it! (and you got there in waaaay less words too! ) Just finished power washing the siding and porch on the front of the house. I don't know who's desire that was, but they better knock it off.... my hair was perfect before I went out there..... (....gotta be Mrs. Mxyzptlk's desire....)
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Post by Figgles on May 9, 2017 17:12:35 GMT
Yes, great way of putting it! (and you got there in waaaay less words too! ) Just finished power washing the siding and porch on the front of the house. I don't know who's desire that was, but they better knock it off.... my hair was perfect before I went out there..... (....gotta be Mrs. Mxyzptlk's desire....)
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 18:25:23 GMT
Identification is not a problem, who said Identification is the problem? Wrong identification is the problem because unfolding story sucks us there. You can't be without identification, You always identifies yourself to be a person or witness. Oh really, do you think so?? How do you define 'identification'? This is my definition, and reason why I do not agree that one always identifies with some-thing: Identification refers to a fundamental, pervasive sense/belief/knowing, that I am a particular something. To 'identify' is to equate beingness with thing-ness. Therefore, an absence of identification means that there is no sense of being as a particular some'thing'.....just unfettered being, absent any idea or question as to 'what-ness.' Identification automatically happens, If you do not identify yourself consciously, then identification happens unconsciously, and then creation gets triggers from there. So identification is inherent. Assume what happens in avatar movie, the handicapped guy spirit was transferred to the newly created avatar, So he immediately identifies with that body and starts to run, it's because he knows his newly identified body can walk and run.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 22:55:03 GMT
Oh really, do you think so?? How do you define 'identification'? This is my definition, and reason why I do not agree that one always identifies with some-thing: Identification refers to a fundamental, pervasive sense/belief/knowing, that I am a particular something. To 'identify' is to equate beingness with thing-ness. Therefore, an absence of identification means that there is no sense of being as a particular some'thing'.....just unfettered being, absent any idea or question as to 'what-ness.' Identification automatically happens, If you do not identify yourself consciously, then identification happens unconsciously, and then creation gets triggers from there. So identification is inherent. Assume what happens in avatar movie, the handicapped guy spirit was transferred to the newly created avatar, So he immediately identifies with that body and starts to run, it's because he knows his newly identified body can walk and run. Identification is not inherent to "I". It is inherent to the "I am". I am a man, I am a woman, I am beautiful, I am a prisoner, I am a Muslim, I am a Jew, etc. Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
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Post by Figgles on May 10, 2017 3:48:47 GMT
Oh really, do you think so?? How do you define 'identification'? This is my definition, and reason why I do not agree that one always identifies with some-thing: Identification refers to a fundamental, pervasive sense/belief/knowing, that I am a particular something. To 'identify' is to equate beingness with thing-ness. Therefore, an absence of identification means that there is no sense of being as a particular some'thing'.....just unfettered being, absent any idea or question as to 'what-ness.' Identification automatically happens, If you do not identify yourself consciously, then identification happens unconsciously, and then creation gets triggers from there. So identification is inherent. Assume what happens in avatar movie, the handicapped guy spirit was transferred to the newly created avatar, So he immediately identifies with that body and starts to run, it's because he knows his newly identified body can walk and run. Interesting way to look at 'identification.' Food for thought. I will nibble a little on that one.
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Post by Figgles on May 10, 2017 3:52:45 GMT
Identification automatically happens, If you do not identify yourself consciously, then identification happens unconsciously, and then creation gets triggers from there. So identification is inherent. Assume what happens in avatar movie, the handicapped guy spirit was transferred to the newly created avatar, So he immediately identifies with that body and starts to run, it's because he knows his newly identified body can walk and run. Identification is not inherent to "I". It is inherent to the "I am". I am a man, I am a woman, I am beautiful, I am a prisoner, I am a Muslim, I am a Jew, etc. Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk Yeah, I'd say it's inherent to 'I am a....'...but not necessarily to 'I am.' I am, simply references Being.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 12:32:01 GMT
Identification automatically happens, If you do not identify yourself consciously, then identification happens unconsciously, and then creation gets triggers from there. So identification is inherent. Assume what happens in avatar movie, the handicapped guy spirit was transferred to the newly created avatar, So he immediately identifies with that body and starts to run, it's because he knows his newly identified body can walk and run. Identification is not inherent to "I". It is inherent to the "I am". I am a man, I am a woman, I am beautiful, I am a prisoner, I am a Muslim, I am a Jew, etc. Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk I am a man, I am a woman, I am beautiful could be identification with the appearance of the body but that would not make much difference in creation, I am talking about the identification about 'I am living inside this body', this identification is with everyone unconsciously. This identification is leading you to believe in separate individual. So creation starts to stem from there.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 12:34:49 GMT
Identification automatically happens, If you do not identify yourself consciously, then identification happens unconsciously, and then creation gets triggers from there. So identification is inherent. Assume what happens in avatar movie, the handicapped guy spirit was transferred to the newly created avatar, So he immediately identifies with that body and starts to run, it's because he knows his newly identified body can walk and run. Interesting way to look at 'identification.' Food for thought. I will nibble a little on that one. yeah, great!
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