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Post by Figgles on May 6, 2017 0:01:20 GMT
I would say one can be free of 'suffering' due to the opposing aspect of experience, but I'm not so sure that worldly experience can be completely free of all opposing aspects. I would say that the very fact of experience means that opposing aspects are in play. Re: your question; I would say no. It doesn't matter whether one believes opposing aspects are necessary facets of experience, or not, Because. One can be free, regardless of what's happening in experience.Do you believe that experience can be completely, totally free of contrasting conditions....ie; Could one's life experience be filled with nothing but 'wanted' circumstances and happenings? You would be free even if somebody gets crucified infront of your eyes? What a cruel person you are  Keep in mind, One who does not become 'lost' to the horror, is in a much better position to receive inspiration about how to save the poor bugger! |
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Post by Figgles on May 6, 2017 0:06:04 GMT
No. I don't think mild irritation or anger is necessarily resistance to 'universal creation' itself, but rather, it's just a surface arising in response to another surface arising. One can be fundamentally in acceptance of universal creation, on the whole, and still have minor arisings of resistance on the surface of experience. In order for that to cease completely, one would have to become completely devoid of all likes/dislikes, all personal preferences and all personal aversions, and I just don't see that that should or even could happen as those are part and parcel of being human. The human aspect is always inherent in experience, even in transcendence. In transcendence, what one has transcended is seeing fundamental wrongness, but the continued presence of the human aspect in experience means that surface wrongs can still at times be seen.
You are watching a movie, suddenly a rape scene comes along the way, we usually wish that scene to move away quickly,right? Or some kind of horrible scene comes along the way, we would quickly want that scene to move away ,right? That's resistance. If you can't watch something freely then you are experiencing the resistance. Since it's a movie, you are completely convinced that you can't do anything other than watching the movie, so you would not react rather you would wait that to pass away, but if it's reality, you would react to change the situation, right? this is what I call as resistance. If these kind of feeling still arises in you,then you are witnessing the irritation and anger, then you are not in witnessing mode. You are in actor mode.Okay....and you have shared that you do experience irritation and anger, So that means you are not actually in witnessing mode, but rather, in actor mode? I am confused.  |
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Post by Figgles on May 6, 2017 0:10:22 GMT
Okay. So why is this still happening when you say you have realized the Truth? This is what I continue to not understand regarding your argument that realizing results in the end of all resistance or it has not been realized. If creation has to support your realization, and you say you have realized, why do you still experience a rollercoaster? I did not say I am free from resistance, but I know what's resistance. I said I am free from the illusion which I have seen through. I have seen through the illusion of controlling and allowing, I have seen through the illusion achieving something. Whenever I see through the illusion, that usually falls away, that would no longer will occupy me. Okay. But weren't you also saying that what arises in circumstance (creation) has to support the realization..thus, bad/unwanted things will no longer happen in experience, once this realization is the case..? For example; You've seen through the illusion where Reefs' behavior towards you is concerned, so why did it keep happening? |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 6:01:14 GMT
You would be free even if somebody gets crucified infront of your eyes? What a cruel person you are Keep in mind, One who does not become 'lost' to the horror, is in a much better position to receive inspiration about how to save the poor bugger! You haven't answered my questions yet. Would you not be disturbed when somebody is getting crucified? Will you continue to remain in peace? |
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Post by Figgles on May 6, 2017 16:40:35 GMT
Keep in mind, One who does not become 'lost' to the horror, is in a much better position to receive inspiration about how to save the poor bugger! You haven't answered my questions yet. Would you not be disturbed when somebody is getting crucified? Will you continue to remain in peace? I've never been there before, so I cannot say for certain how i would react on the surface of things, but I imagine it would be pretty awful....no doubt, there'd be resistance to seeing that. Regardless though, the way I am defining 'peace,' it really would not matter so much what arose in those moments of experience in terms of feelings as I watched it happen. Peace is not dependent upon the surface happenings, but rather, the fundamental knowing that lies beneath it. One can be momentarily horrified by what is unfolding in experience, and still have a foundational sense that Life is good and all is fundamentally ok. The fundamental understanding encompasses and outpowers the surface experience, if that makes any sense. And what I say above, I still stand by; When horrific things are appearing, remaining grounded in the peace of being does equal being in a position to be inspired and spontaneously act in ways that positively mitigate the unwanted happening. Being free for me, does not equal never experiencing resistance, it means that in the face of resistance, I do not lose sight of the joy inherent in being. My position on this involves seeing surface happenings as 'distinct from,' fundamental knowing/understanding/seeing...but that said, they are not separate either, and the fundamental seeing does color and mitigate the surface happenings/feelings. Thus, if there is a strong negative reaction, it arises and passes....does not get stuck or linger or fester. It's much the way that observing horrific stuff in a night-time dream would be mitigated by your knowing that it is in fact, a dream, and that 'the dreamer' at the most fundamental level, is not being harmed...that beyond the dream, all is well. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 20:05:11 GMT
What do you mean by realizing I am? I don't know how it is related to the realization of being witness! You are watching a movie in a theater is the good example what's the meaning of witness. I was speaking there of I am, and seeing that there is no other knowing that comes close to that which pertains to 'being,'...thus, really, the only certain knowing is just that; I am/Being. Okay...so 'the truth of your witness' references the realization that life is like a movie, and you are watching it unfold? I still don't get how that seeing means that what arises in experience has to 'support' that. And again, you say you have realized this truth, but you also say you still experience a roller-coaster. So, doesn't that mean that creation is not supporting your realization? I do experience the roller coaster is fine, but when the illusion falls away I began to understand the truth that I am not actually riding the boat it's floating but I have mistaken that I am riding the boat. One single realization doesn't eradicate everything, but realization will collapse the associated illusion, for an example, when I believed that controlling the feeling would change the reality(because LOA states that like attracts like), I was controlling the feeling until I start to see the truth of controlling is not really changing anything instead it's creating the allowing(lose of control) as it's opposite. Once I have seen this illusion, associated illusion was dropped away and associated people moved away as well. So each and every realization puts me more and more into the witnessing mode. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 20:08:58 GMT
You are watching a movie, suddenly a rape scene comes along the way, we usually wish that scene to move away quickly,right? Or some kind of horrible scene comes along the way, we would quickly want that scene to move away ,right? That's resistance. If you can't watch something freely then you are experiencing the resistance. Since it's a movie, you are completely convinced that you can't do anything other than watching the movie, so you would not react rather you would wait that to pass away, but if it's reality, you would react to change the situation, right? this is what I call as resistance. If these kind of feeling still arises in you,then you are witnessing the irritation and anger, then you are not in witnessing mode. You are in actor mode.Okay....and you have shared that you do experience irritation and anger, So that means you are not actually in witnessing mode, but rather, in actor mode? I am confused. My rollercoaster doesn't include anger, but includes the irritation. Anger was dropped away when I see the truth of controlling would resolve the problem. I consider anger as the outward expression, So what you consider anger might be different from what I think. As I said in my previous message, each and every realization places me more and more into the witnessing mode, So I know witnessing mode must be the harmony to our own nature, not actor mode. |
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Post by Figgles on May 6, 2017 22:19:11 GMT
Okay....and you have shared that you do experience irritation and anger, So that means you are not actually in witnessing mode, but rather, in actor mode? I am confused. My rollercoaster doesn't include anger, but includes the irritation. Anger was dropped away when I see the truth of controlling would resolve the problem. I consider anger as the outward expression, So what you consider anger might be different from what I think. As I said in my previous message, each and every realization places me more and more into the witnessing mode, So I know witnessing mode must be the harmony to our own nature, not actor mode. I don't see the lines as being so stark between what you seem to be designating between these 'modes.' Action happens, and need not mean that one has become 'lost' to that happening. Action can co-exist with awareness that it's all just happening...absent a sense of 'becoming' the separate doer. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 18:12:11 GMT
My rollercoaster doesn't include anger, but includes the irritation. Anger was dropped away when I see the truth of controlling would resolve the problem. I consider anger as the outward expression, So what you consider anger might be different from what I think. As I said in my previous message, each and every realization places me more and more into the witnessing mode, So I know witnessing mode must be the harmony to our own nature, not actor mode. How come? You see we both agree that we are always witnessing, no matter whether we realize this truth or not. We are the silent witness behind the movie(Reality),right? Whatever happens is being witnessed, arising of decision is being witnessed, arising of angry is being witnessed, arising of love is being witnessed. Everything is witnessed, we are not deciding but we are experiencing the decision which has been set at our lesser conscious level. So no matter what, we are always witnessing the happening. So the question is, what is the difference between the one who knows he is witnessing and the one who doesn't know he is witnessing? If one realized the truth of he is witnessing then the unfolding story has to support the realization, otherwise what's the use of that realization? You can act, that's not the problem, but there is a difference between when you witnessing the sea shore and when you are witnessing the crucifixion,right? |
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Post by Figgles on May 8, 2017 18:58:20 GMT
I don't see the lines as being so stark between what you seem to be designating between these 'modes.' How come? You see we both agree that we are always witnessing, no matter whether we realize this truth or not. We are the silent witness behind the movie(Reality),right? Whatever happens is being witnessed, arising of decision is being witnessed, arising of angry is being witnessed, arising of love is being witnessed. Everything is witnessed, we are not deciding but we are experiencing the decision which has been set at our lesser conscious level. So no matter what, we are always witnessing the happening. So the question is, what is the difference between the one who knows he is witnessing and the one who doesn't know he is witnessing? If one realized the truth of he is witnessing then the unfolding story has to support the realization, otherwise what's the use of that realization?You can act, that's not the problem, but there is a difference between when you witnessing the sea shore and when you are witnessing the crucifixion,right? Yeah, okay, I'm with you up to the bolded part; What exactly does it look like, when the unfolding story supports the realization that I am the witness? How and why does that change the unfolding circumstances? I get how it would change the feelings that arise, but why necessarily the form/content? As far as the whole 'witness' thing goes, I would say,There is always a silent witness that can be seen and accessed, if necessary, yes. Being/experiencing AS the silent witness, is a particular vantage point...a particular juncture along the pathless path. At 2nd mountain, where 'there is no mountain,' one can become quite entrenched in 'witnessing mode.' He stands firmly in that position and to all else that arises, sees and says, 'not me.' Witness/witnessing is important thing to see/realize, but you don't wanna get stuck there. One is able to remain at peace at this juncture, through adhering to 'witness mode,' and thereby postionally holding himself 'apart from' unwanted happenings/appearances that would otherwise hurt deeply. The reason this 'holding apart' is necessary at this juncture, is because integration has not yet happened. There is still fear and a strong aversion to getting 'sucked into' being an unconscious character in the 'movie,' and actively, consciously adopting the position of witness, is a way to make sure that does not happen. Witnessing 'insulates' one from the unfolding drama, but by the same token, it also insulates one from the joy of full immersion in being/experience. At 3rd mountain, where there is once again a mountain, there is integration of the witness and the character. That does not mean that the character ever starts believing again that he is in fact a separate acting character, or that he loses sight completely of 'the witness,' but rather, there is a melding that happens.....where there's no longer any need to hold to any particular vantage point, for fear of getting swept up and away in the delusion of believing I am a separately acting character. And yes, in experiencing a sea shore, vs. a crucifixtion, there will likely indeed be a difference in the arising responses....I would say compassion actually 'increases' when full integration of witness and actor happens....after all, in the actual experience of 'not two,' there is a natural opening of the heart. But, inherent in that integrative melding of all 'facets' of Self, is the fundamental understanding that regardless of what may appearing, all is well, perfect, unfolding in perfection. That means that a surface arising of a sense of deep aversion to the circumstance, will be mitigated and colored by that underlying knowing/sense of goodness. That's how I see 'peace' making itself known through experience. |
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