Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 10:22:32 GMT
So if you strongly believe something is going to happen, the opposite happens? If you strongly believe that, the opposite of the opposite will happen. I strongly believe something else is going on. I did not say opposite was going to happen, I said it is not going to happen. I said the very experience you are expecting wouldn't happen(Expectation freezes the future). Yes, and then you said 'in fact, the complete opposite would happen'. "In-fact strong expectation of something brings the worst current experience for myself(which is the complete opposite of what I am expecting). " What am I missing?
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 10:24:41 GMT
What? What other definition you are having for expectation? There's only one way to define 'expectation'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 10:55:28 GMT
The problem with your explanation is that for the Self realized all perceivables are just Self appearing as form, and therefore not absent truth. The Self-realized do not consider perceivables to be absent of truth. You cannot if there is oneness/unity. This is the flaw I see in your narrative time and time again. But it's legitimate spoken from the perspective of the seeker until the seeker sees that all is one. You are bifurcating the dream and the ground of being. The Self-realized don't do that at all because for them there is no duality or non duality, hence nothing to divide because there are not two. Just read your own words. You are suggesting that if one realizes that everything is an appearance then an absent truth comes rushing in somehow. This is just a concept of Truth made real by thinking that everything is an appearance when we already know that everything appears and is therefore an appearance. So what? It is the bringing together of appearance and non appearance into a unified whole that is the truth, as a living reality. Of course you might claim to be a master and argue that someone like Nisargadatta spoke like that to seekers so why shouldn't you? That's why I don't recommend Nisargadatta anymore because he confuses people. He wanted his followers to understand that knowing yourself wasn't a belief system but unfortunately people got hold of his words and made it a belief system and spoke very little about the actual practice he engaged in day after day after day. That's what we're saying when we say all appearances are appearing AS Consciousness. We're saying there is just Self and appearances are Self. However, the fact that appearances are Self doesn't mean appearances tell you something true about Self, so we say appearances are absent any transcendent truth. If that's true then why are you even bothering to say it? I mean who's listening who needs to hear this? Who are you actually talking to?
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 16:24:41 GMT
That's what we're saying when we say all appearances are appearing AS Consciousness. We're saying there is just Self and appearances are Self. However, the fact that appearances are Self doesn't mean appearances tell you something true about Self, so we say appearances are absent any transcendent truth. If that's true then why are you even bothering to say it? I mean who's listening who needs to hear this? Who are you actually talking to? The second part directly contradicts what you said, so I guess you need to hear it, along with everybody who looks to the world of experience for a transcendent truth. (almost everybody, it seems)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 17:54:16 GMT
If that's true then why are you even bothering to say it? I mean who's listening who needs to hear this? Who are you actually talking to? The second part directly contradicts what you said, so I guess you need to hear it, along with everybody who looks to the world of experience for a transcendent truth. (almost everybody, it seems) Unfortunately I don't understand your response.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jan 17, 2020 4:00:26 GMT
Perfectly put.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 8:45:05 GMT
I did not say opposite was going to happen, I said it is not going to happen. I said the very experience you are expecting wouldn't happen(Expectation freezes the future). Yes, and then you said 'in fact, the complete opposite would happen'. "In-fact strong expectation of something brings the worst current experience for myself(which is the complete opposite of what I am expecting). " What am I missing? yes, but I did not say roller coaster kind would be created. As long as I am trying to attain something, worst situation is being maintain in current life.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 8:45:24 GMT
What? What other definition you are having for expectation? There's only one way to define 'expectation'.
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jan 18, 2020 17:55:58 GMT
Yes, and then you said 'in fact, the complete opposite would happen'. "In-fact strong expectation of something brings the worst current experience for myself(which is the complete opposite of what I am expecting). " What am I missing? yes, but I did not say roller coaster kind would be created. As long as I am trying to attain something, worst situation is being maintain in current life. Sounds like you're saying trying to change something about your current situation doesn't work. If so, your belief and expectation is that it will stay the same, so it seems to me it works perfectly.
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jan 18, 2020 18:06:24 GMT
There's only one way to define 'expectation'. Do you want me to post the definition or are you capable of looking it up yourself?
|
|