Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 9:37:51 GMT
If you're saying the expectation is creative, I agree, but there aren't different sorts of expectation that don't 'freeze the future'. You can expect anything but there are some expectation you know for sure it is going to happen because it's supported by evidence like I said to Figgles, her pregnancy is confirmed with baby girl in scan. So, expectation backed up by strong evidence isn't a problem, but backed up by weak evidence 'freezes the future'?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 9:45:17 GMT
Can you explain more about how that expectation 'freezes the future'? With my daughter, I expected to have a baby girl even before the scan confirmed it. With my son, I expected to have a baby girl but then the scan confirmed i was actually having a boy. There was no problem in either case. You must be having a kind of acceptance towards whatever comes on your way at some level. So expecting a daughter doesn't prevent you from having it. But expecting something so strong will create other way around,I can't be sure whether it's the case for you but it's the case for me all the time. In-fact strong expectation of something brings the worst current experience for myself(which is the complete opposite of what I am expecting). Have you ever read my signature? If you haven't noticed that, please read that, that says the same. So if you strongly believe something is going to happen, the opposite happens? If you strongly believe that, the opposite of the opposite will happen. I strongly believe something else is going on.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 9:47:27 GMT
You 'desire/want' something else when you don't like the way things are. Expectation comes about with surety that what you think is going happen, will in fact happen. Desire/want does not necessarily play a part in 'expectation.' Wanting to have or Desire to have something is expectation. Not so much....really.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 10:01:28 GMT
You would expect something else when you don't like the way things are, no? Um.....No. You would want something else. Fear that what's happening will continue. I did not understand you. I am saying we usually expect something else when we don't like the way things are, eh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 10:02:45 GMT
You can expect anything but there are some expectation you know for sure it is going to happen because it's supported by evidence like I said to Figgles, her pregnancy is confirmed with baby girl in scan. So, expectation backed up by strong evidence isn't a problem, but backed up by weak evidence 'freezes the future'? You said headache goes away even when you take it with complete belief that it goes away, how come then? It implies the same, eh? Evidence is creating the belief in us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 10:04:01 GMT
You must be having a kind of acceptance towards whatever comes on your way at some level. So expecting a daughter doesn't prevent you from having it. But expecting something so strong will create other way around,I can't be sure whether it's the case for you but it's the case for me all the time. In-fact strong expectation of something brings the worst current experience for myself(which is the complete opposite of what I am expecting). Have you ever read my signature? If you haven't noticed that, please read that, that says the same. So if you strongly believe something is going to happen, the opposite happens? If you strongly believe that, the opposite of the opposite will happen. I strongly believe something else is going on. I did not say opposite was going to happen, I said it is not going to happen. I said the very experience you are expecting wouldn't happen(Expectation freezes the future).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 10:04:32 GMT
Wanting to have or Desire to have something is expectation. Not so much....really. What? What other definition you are having for expectation?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 10:08:51 GMT
Unless you've realized the entire realm of perceivables to be appearance only, dream/story-content, thus, absent Truth, you're still asleep...enslaved by the dream. The problem with your explanation is that for the Self realized all perceivables are just Self appearing as form, and therefore not absent truth. The Self-realized do not consider perceivables to be absent of truth. You cannot if there is oneness/unity. This is the flaw I see in your narrative time and time again. But it's legitimate spoken from the perspective of the seeker until the seeker sees that all is one. You are bifurcating the dream and the ground of being. The Self-realized don't do that at all because for them there is no duality or non duality, hence nothing to divide because there are not two. Just read your own words. You are suggesting that if one realizes that everything is an appearance then an absent truth comes rushing in somehow. This is just a concept of Truth made real by thinking that everything is an appearance when we already know that everything appears and is therefore an appearance. So what? It is the bringing together of appearance and non appearance into a unified whole that is the truth, as a living reality. Of course you might claim to be a master and argue that someone like Nisargadatta spoke like that to seekers so why shouldn't you? That's why I don't recommend Nisargadatta anymore because he confuses people. He wanted his followers to understand that knowing yourself wasn't a belief system but unfortunately people got hold of his words and made it a belief system and spoke very little about the actual practice he engaged in day after day after day. That's what we're saying when we say all appearances are appearing AS Consciousness. We're saying there is just Self and appearances are Self. However, the fact that appearances are Self doesn't mean appearances tell you something true about Self, so we say appearances are absent any transcendent truth.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 10:11:49 GMT
Um.....No. You would want something else. Fear that what's happening will continue. I did not understand you. I am saying we usually expect something else when we don't like the way things are, eh? I think you're having trouble with the definition of 'expect'. "ex·pect regard (something) as likely to happen."
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 10:16:41 GMT
So, expectation backed up by strong evidence isn't a problem, but backed up by weak evidence 'freezes the future'? You said headache goes away even when you take it with complete belief that it goes away, how come then? It implies the same, eh? Evidence is creating the belief in us.I don't follow you.
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