Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 16:14:23 GMT
Yes, that's not the problem. But if you say you can expect anything and have the stubborn belief that something is going to happen would cause it to happen, then I would disagree with you because story would create the expectation and confirm it with the belief as well. It IS a problem if you don't like the way things are. You would expect something else when you don't like the way things are, no?
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jan 15, 2020 18:06:54 GMT
Life experience is rife with all sorts of expectations; As you close your eyes to go to sleep at night, you expect to sleep, to wake up, for the sun to rise. As you wait for a light to turn green at a road crossing, you expect it will turn, As you place fingers on your keyboard, you expect words to appear on the screen..... Expectation is not problematic. Intolerance/fundamental resistance to the content of the present moment, is. Expectation and knowing that it is definitely going to happen is not a problem. For an example, let's assume you are conceived with a baby and you are going for a scan and scan report says that you are carrying a baby girl. Now your expectation to have the baby girl is a definite belief in you, that's not a problem, it will happen that way. Now let's assume a second condition, you are conceived a baby and assume you are in India now and in India it's not allowed to see the gender of the baby. NOW, If you are expecting a baby girl, this expectation is the problematic one. This sort of expectation is what I am talking about. Expectation freezes the future.Can you explain more about how that expectation 'freezes the future'? With my daughter, I expected to have a baby girl even before the scan confirmed it. With my son, I expected to have a baby girl but then the scan confirmed i was actually having a boy. There was no problem in either case.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jan 15, 2020 18:13:41 GMT
It IS a problem if you don't like the way things are. You would expect something else when you don't like the way things are, no? You 'desire/want' something else when you don't like the way things are. Expectation comes about with surety that what you think is going happen, will in fact happen. Desire/want does not necessarily play a part in 'expectation.'
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jan 15, 2020 19:09:41 GMT
What you reference as 'the only' disagreement renders your 'general acceptance' a nonsense. You insist that the content of your CC experience "that reality is a field of aliveness, aware, conscious, unified" is the absolute Truth. E's definition of realization is a seeing of what is not so. Thus, if you come away knowing something about the world and calling that 'a realization' vs. come away with lighter baggage, a loss, an absence, your definition is in direct opposition to E's. What you are really saying is that you 'generally' agree with E that realization = a fundamental loss, seeing through, absence, but also disagree, because as you see it, sometimes realization can be defined as the addition of knowledge about the world. Thus, It's ridiculous to say that you 'generally accept' his definition. Your insistence that the new knowledge you acquired via your CC experience constitutes 'a realization' flies directly in the face of, and is in direct contradiction of, E's definition. Unity consciousness events are just mind trying to make sense of an absence. Mind taking perceivables and framing them into an amalgamated, unified substrate/substance that it then calls 'Oneness.' Those events do not constitute actual realization/loss/seeing through unless that 'amalgamated, unified sum of parts, that perceived substrate/substance, itself, then gets seen through, gets seen to be an appearance only, arising within/to that which abides.Which means, you don't come away calling the 'unified field of aliveness' you perceived, a realization/absolute Truth. The seeing that reality 'is not' what was previously imagined, does indeed fit the bill for 'realization,' but, the seeing that reality is 'alive, aware,' does not. If by 'unified' you mean 'not separate' then that also fits the bill, and if by 'infinite' you mean 'absent limitation/unbounded' that too does, however, it seems that for you 'infinite' equals an experiential, sensed, perceived, 'vastness,' rather than an absence, thus, and if so, that part does not fit the bill. Unless you've realized the entire realm of perceivables to be appearance only, dream/story-content, thus, absent Truth, you're still asleep...enslaved by the dream. And again, if you stopped there, you'd be fine in alluding to the aftermath of your CC Kensho to be 'a realization.' But you don't. Instead you go on to fill in the blank/absence in the wake of that realization with affirmative knowledge about what reality IS; Alive, consciously aware, all things, a unified field. All of that is perceivable, experiential content vs. an absence/seeing of what is not so. I get the sense that you very much want to be in alignment with E's definition of realization, but you keep wanting to drag your experiential content into the empty suitcase but the moment you do, that suitcase is no longer empty. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5427/tenka-stuff?page=145#ixzz6B7s8O0QK
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 4:03:43 GMT
Expectation and knowing that it is definitely going to happen is not a problem. For an example, let's assume you are conceived with a baby and you are going for a scan and scan report says that you are carrying a baby girl. Now your expectation to have the baby girl is a definite belief in you, that's not a problem, it will happen that way. Now let's assume a second condition, you are conceived a baby and assume you are in India now and in India it's not allowed to see the gender of the baby. NOW, If you are expecting a baby girl, this expectation is the problematic one. This sort of expectation is what I am talking about. Expectation freezes the future.If you're saying the expectation is creative, I agree, but there aren't different sorts of expectation that don't 'freeze the future'. You can expect anything but there are some expectation you know for sure it is going to happen because it's supported by evidence like I said to Figgles, her pregnancy is confirmed with baby girl in scan.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 4:22:35 GMT
Yes, that's not the problem. But if you say you can expect anything and have the stubborn belief that something is going to happen would cause it to happen, then I would disagree with you because story would create the expectation and confirm it with the belief as well. Yes, the conditioning creates the expectation and belief, not the person. Belief forms on the basis of evidence. You cannot choose to believe. It would be a split mind process that doesn't lead to either belief or expectation. Yes, very well said. That's what I was talking about too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 6:21:21 GMT
Expectation and knowing that it is definitely going to happen is not a problem. For an example, let's assume you are conceived with a baby and you are going for a scan and scan report says that you are carrying a baby girl. Now your expectation to have the baby girl is a definite belief in you, that's not a problem, it will happen that way. Now let's assume a second condition, you are conceived a baby and assume you are in India now and in India it's not allowed to see the gender of the baby. NOW, If you are expecting a baby girl, this expectation is the problematic one. This sort of expectation is what I am talking about. Expectation freezes the future.Can you explain more about how that expectation 'freezes the future'? With my daughter, I expected to have a baby girl even before the scan confirmed it. With my son, I expected to have a baby girl but then the scan confirmed i was actually having a boy. There was no problem in either case. You must be having a kind of acceptance towards whatever comes on your way at some level. So expecting a daughter doesn't prevent you from having it. But expecting something so strong will create other way around,I can't be sure whether it's the case for you but it's the case for me all the time. In-fact strong expectation of something brings the worst current experience for myself(which is the complete opposite of what I am expecting). Have you ever read my signature? If you haven't noticed that, please read that, that says the same.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 6:22:30 GMT
You would expect something else when you don't like the way things are, no? You 'desire/want' something else when you don't like the way things are. Expectation comes about with surety that what you think is going happen, will in fact happen. Desire/want does not necessarily play a part in 'expectation.' Wanting to have or Desire to have something is expectation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 7:39:44 GMT
Unless you've realized the entire realm of perceivables to be appearance only, dream/story-content, thus, absent Truth, you're still asleep...enslaved by the dream. The problem with your explanation is that for the Self realized all perceivables are just Self appearing as form, and therefore not absent truth. The Self-realized do not consider perceivables to be absent of truth. You cannot if there is oneness/unity. This is the flaw I see in your narrative time and time again. But it's legitimate spoken from the perspective of the seeker until the seeker sees that all is one. You are bifurcating the dream and the ground of being. The Self-realized don't do that at all because for them there is no duality or non duality, hence nothing to divide because there are not two. Just read your own words. You are suggesting that if one realizes that everything is an appearance then an absent truth comes rushing in somehow. This is just a concept of Truth made real by thinking that everything is an appearance when we already know that everything appears and is therefore an appearance. So what? It is the bringing together of appearance and non appearance into a unified whole that is the truth, as a living reality. Of course you might claim to be a master and argue that someone like Nisargadatta spoke like that to seekers so why shouldn't you? That's why I don't recommend Nisargadatta anymore because he confuses people. He wanted his followers to understand that knowing yourself wasn't a belief system but unfortunately people got hold of his words and made it a belief system and spoke very little about the actual practice he engaged in day after day after day.
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jan 16, 2020 9:10:32 GMT
It IS a problem if you don't like the way things are. You would expect something else when you don't like the way things are, no? Um.....No. You would want something else. Fear that what's happening will continue.
|
|