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Post by Figgles on May 8, 2019 22:43:56 GMT
But as you say ZD, the important thing is whether or not there is 'freedom from mind.' How many 'other' realizations are there, other than SR that result in that?
"Numerous major realizations" apart from SR? really? I think you are conflating experiential insight with realization. "Realization" is a loss, a seeing through, a falling away, a subtraction of previous, erroneous knowledge/ideas. And when that 'loss' is the SVP, we get 'abiding freedom from mind,' and not until.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by Enigma on May 8, 2019 23:20:59 GMT
If you were actually 'content to leave the matter be,' why the explanation below? This is a good example ZD of how you say things like: Let's agree to disagree, or let's leave it at that, etc, but then you clearly are not content to just 'leave it at that.' It really does seem as though you want to be able to say your bit, while silencing the other. I'd be telling you this on ST, not sure if you're aware or not, but I'm been banned...again. Now you've invoked all these terms (NS, SS, dai-kensho) when the original argument was simply; Can Oneness be realized without seeing through person-hood? The real question is; Has separation actually been seen through? Has Oneness actually been realized? That's how freedom from mind comes about....when the SVP is longer imagined to be driving the bus. And absent the seeing through of the separate person, there is not 'realization of Oneness.' The apprehension of Oneness = the seeing through of the SVP. So long as there is still an SVP at the wheel, imaginary as it may be, there is no freedom from mind, No 'realization of Oneness.' You've been banned again? Any particular reason, or is that too much to ask?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 8, 2019 23:27:34 GMT
I can't tell if he's talking to Tenka or Andy?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 8, 2019 23:41:54 GMT
But there is a vast difference between a temporary state of unity consciousness vs. an actual "realization" of Oneness. Realization is not a 'state' that comes and goes. States that come and go still have a person at their helm, even if it seems at the time as though the person temporarily took a hike. States are not the equivalent of 'realization.' When you say that Oneness can be "realized," without seeing through person-hood you are conflating a state (which is temporary) with realization, which is a permanent loss/seeing through of what is NOT. Clearly so. Apparently, what makes it possible to imagine being SR without seeing through person-hood is the idea of unity. The person, then, continues on as an entity that gets unified with everything else. (whatever that means in that context) There is no unification, and therefore no unity consciousness. Anyone who claims to have experienced unity consciousness has fallen for a story.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 8, 2019 23:47:13 GMT
I find it really sad and sick when one uses the difficult circumstances shared by another, to jab as Andrew is doing here. You're being an asshole. Andrew. (SomeNothing, I am very sorry for your loss and ensuing circumstances with your mom) What happened with SN?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 8, 2019 23:54:16 GMT
Exactly 2. In the end, ZD's experiences mean nothing and are irrelevant. He can't claim that there are actual realizations associated with the experiences such as unity consciousness and knowing everything is alive, because those are false ideas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 9:56:32 GMT
I find it really sad and sick when one uses the difficult circumstances shared by another, to jab as Andrew is doing here. You're being an asshole. Andrew. (SomeNothing, I am very sorry for your loss and ensuing circumstances with your mom) What happened with SN? His father has passed away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 9:58:43 GMT
I find it really sad and sick when one uses the difficult circumstances shared by another, to jab as Andrew is doing here. You're being an asshole. Andrew. (SomeNothing, I am very sorry for your loss and ensuing circumstances with your mom) yes, I got irritated when I read his reply to someNothing. Even Laffy was unhappy about his writing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 10:00:00 GMT
If you were actually 'content to leave the matter be,' why the explanation below? This is a good example ZD of how you say things like: Let's agree to disagree, or let's leave it at that, etc, but then you clearly are not content to just 'leave it at that.' It really does seem as though you want to be able to say your bit, while silencing the other. I'd be telling you this on ST, not sure if you're aware or not, but I'm been banned...again. Now you've invoked all these terms (NS, SS, dai-kensho) when the original argument was simply; Can Oneness be realized without seeing through person-hood? The real question is; Has separation actually been seen through? Has Oneness actually been realized? That's how freedom from mind comes about....when the SVP is longer imagined to be driving the bus. And absent the seeing through of the separate person, there is not 'realization of Oneness.' The apprehension of Oneness = the seeing through of the SVP. So long as there is still an SVP at the wheel, imaginary as it may be, there is no freedom from mind, No 'realization of Oneness.' You've been banned again? Any particular reason, or is that too much to ask? Reason follows from Reefs
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 9, 2019 13:52:01 GMT
What happened with SN? His father has passed away. My condolences, Kevin.
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