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Post by Figgles on Apr 25, 2017 17:03:53 GMT
The above quote I copied and pasted here, is from a conversation on SpiritualTeachers.org forum. While I do agree that IF irritation is arising, noticing that and owning up to it is indeed a display of self-honesty and that that is indeed important, an emphatic 'No', to the premise that 'getting annoyed' is a 'natural reaction' to being talked down to. First and foremost, one must read the words of the other to 'determine' that he is being talked 'down to.' That requires some very specific, subjective, personal judgements. It's entirely possible that one can disagree with you and even speak from a position of what he himself deems to be authority, without you perceiving that you are in fact being spoken down to. Even if I do conclude that another is speaking down to me, annoyance on my part is only a 'natural reaction,' IF, I am identifying with an image of self that is limited. Absent that identification, the way another speaks to me will have no bearing upon my equanimity. If one who has realized that neither he nor the other, is a separate, finite, limited 'thing,' and he is operating from clearly seeing that Truth, there is nothing there to give rise to irritation or anger. Does that mean that a sage never gets irritated or angered? Not necessarily. After all, There is still a human being, still experience happening, but if irritation while conversing with another should arise, it's seen for what it is, a momentary hitch in mind, created by a very specific, limited focus, rather than a natural, inevitable arising. There are sometimes folks who on one hand, very much want to paint themselves as being fully self realized, enlightened, awakened, whatever, but who are still experiencing the trivial, emotional ups and downs that are indicative of an experience rife with a sense of being separate.....of identifying with limitation....of essentially, still being fast asleep and simpy dreaming that they are awake. These are the ones who will argue for the continued existence of petty irritations in circumstances that are wholly benign. Do you necessarily get angry when you feel another is 'talking down to you'? It's actually a really good litmus test for whether or not you are identifying with a self image.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 25, 2017 17:28:39 GMT
The above quote I copied and pasted here, is from a conversation on SpiritualTeachers.org forum. While I do agree that IF irritation is arising, noticing that and owning up to it is indeed a display of self-honesty and that that is indeed important, an emphatic 'No', to the premise that 'getting annoyed' is a 'natural reaction' to being talked down to. First and foremost, one must read the words of the other to 'determine' that he is being talked 'down to.' That requires some very specific, subjective, personal judgements. It's entirely possible that one can disagree with you and even speak from a position of what he himself deems to be authority, without you perceiving that you are in fact being spoken down to. Even if I do conclude that another is speaking down to me, annoyance on my part is only a 'natural reaction,' IF, I am identifying with an image of self that is limited. Absent that identification, the way another speaks to me will have no bearing upon my equanimity. If one who has realized that neither he nor the other, is a separate, finite, limited 'thing,' and he is operating from clearly seeing that Truth, there is nothing there to give rise to irritation or anger. Does that mean that a sage never gets irritated or angered? Not necessarily. After all, There is still a human being, still experience happening, but if irritation while conversing with another should arise, it's seen for what it is, a momentary hitch in mind, created by a very specific, limited focus, rather than a natural, inevitable arising. There are sometimes folks who on one hand, very much want to paint themselves as being fully self realized, enlightened, awakened, whatever, but who are still experiencing the trivial, emotional ups and downs that are indicative of an experience rife with a sense of being separate.....of identifying with limitation....of essentially, still being fast asleep and simpy dreaming that they are awake. These are the ones who will argue for the continued existence of petty irritations in circumstances that are wholly benign. Do you necessarily get angry when you feel another is 'talking down to you'? It's actually a really good litmus test for whether or not you are identifying with a self image. The following video of Eckhart Tolle, exemplifies what I'm saying above (and more);
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 14:49:12 GMT
The above quote I copied and pasted here, is from a conversation on SpiritualTeachers.org forum. While I do agree that IF irritation is arising, noticing that and owning up to it is indeed a display of self-honesty and that that is indeed important, an emphatic 'No', to the premise that 'getting annoyed' is a 'natural reaction' to being talked down to. First and foremost, one must read the words of the other to 'determine' that he is being talked 'down to.' That requires some very specific, subjective, personal judgements. It's entirely possible that one can disagree with you and even speak from a position of what he himself deems to be authority, without you perceiving that you are in fact being spoken down to. Even if I do conclude that another is speaking down to me, annoyance on my part is only a 'natural reaction,' IF, I am identifying with an image of self that is limited. Absent that identification, the way another speaks to me will have no bearing upon my equanimity. If one who has realized that neither he nor the other, is a separate, finite, limited 'thing,' and he is operating from clearly seeing that Truth, there is nothing there to give rise to irritation or anger. Does that mean that a sage never gets irritated or angered? Not necessarily. After all, There is still a human being, still experience happening, but if irritation while conversing with another should arise, it's seen for what it is, a momentary hitch in mind, created by a very specific, limited focus, rather than a natural, inevitable arising. There are sometimes folks who on one hand, very much want to paint themselves as being fully self realized, enlightened, awakened, whatever, but who are still experiencing the trivial, emotional ups and downs that are indicative of an experience rife with a sense of being separate.....of identifying with limitation....of essentially, still being fast asleep and simpy dreaming that they are awake. These are the ones who will argue for the continued existence of petty irritations in circumstances that are wholly benign. Do you necessarily get angry when you feel another is 'talking down to you'? It's actually a really good litmus test for whether or not you are identifying with a self image. The following video of Eckhart Tolle, exemplifies what I'm saying above (and more); The self that gets irritated and then is self honest or not about it is observed by that which neither gets irritated or needs self honesty. Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
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Post by Figgles on Apr 30, 2017 19:53:44 GMT
The following video of Eckhart Tolle, exemplifies what I'm saying above (and more); The self that gets irritated and then is self honest or not about it is observed by that which neither gets irritated or needs self honesty. Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk It can be sure. That's what happens at 2nd position mountain in the mountain metaphor (seeing there is no mountain)....and it's an important juncture for sure. And if one were to just stay there ,that ability to separate SElf from self to observe irritation arising from a position of non-judgment/ non attachment is an auspicious one, and one that will certainly to some degree, indeed, mitigate suffering. But it's still lacking the integration of 'coming full circle.' After all, there are not really two of you. At 3rd position (of the mountain metaphor) there is no experienced division between the one that experiences feelings, and the one that observes from non judgement, non attachment, they are one and the same.... the 'experience' is no longer of one self who is free from attachment/limitation observing another self that experiences stuff that is founded upon a belief that he is not free. AT this juncture, there is no experienced separation.... what arises in terms of feeling/emotion, all that is experienced, is reflective of non-attachment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 20:07:56 GMT
The self that gets irritated and then is self honest or not about it is observed by that which neither gets irritated or needs self honesty. Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk It can be sure. That's what happens at 2nd position mountain in the mountain metaphor (seeing there is no mountain)....and it's an important juncture for sure. And if one were to just stay there ,that ability to separate SElf from self to observe irritation arising from a position of non-judgment/ non attachment is an auspicious one, and one that will certainly to some degree, indeed, mitigate suffering. But it's still lacking the integration of 'coming full circle.' After all, there are not really two of you. At 3rd position (of the mountain metaphor) there is no experienced division between the one that experiences feelings, and the one that observes from non judgement, non attachment, they are one and the same.... the 'experience' is no longer of one self who is free from attachment/limitation observing another self that experiences stuff that is founded upon a belief that he is not free. AT this juncture, there is no experienced separation.... what arises in terms of feeling/emotion, all that is experienced, is reflective of non-attachment. Well, I tested the limits of the projection of non-attachment among the aristocracy; Enigma, Laffy and Reefs. I was able to prove that it was only intellectual and conditional non-attachment. Meaning non-attachment doesn't mean absolute non-attachment under all conditions. That's when Reefs stepped in as sheriff to restore the shattering of their imagined non attachment and loss of credibility.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 20:18:32 GMT
It can be sure. That's what happens at 2nd position mountain in the mountain metaphor (seeing there is no mountain)....and it's an important juncture for sure. And if one were to just stay there ,that ability to separate SElf from self to observe irritation arising from a position of non-judgment/ non attachment is an auspicious one, and one that will certainly to some degree, indeed, mitigate suffering. But it's still lacking the integration of 'coming full circle.' After all, there are not really two of you. At 3rd position (of the mountain metaphor) there is no experienced division between the one that experiences feelings, and the one that observes from non judgement, non attachment, they are one and the same.... the 'experience' is no longer of one self who is free from attachment/limitation observing another self that experiences stuff that is founded upon a belief that he is not free. AT this juncture, there is no experienced separation.... what arises in terms of feeling/emotion, all that is experienced, is reflective of non-attachment. Well, I tested the limits of the projection of non-attachment among the aristocracy; Enigma, Laffy and Reefs. I was able to prove that it was only intellectual and conditional non-attachment. Meaning non-attachment doesn't mean absolute non-attachment under all conditions. That's when Reefs stepped in as sheriff to restore the shattering of their imagined non attachment and loss of credibility. Enigma and Laffy are also problem ? Enigma is very sensitive guy but not problematic he always makes sure he is on the safer side. Laffy fights with people a lot but he is not dangerous he is a good guy as well. Only Reefs is dangerous,a mindless idiot. He is mentally unstable. And I forgot to write about ZD , this guy always wants some people to teach, he wants to perform the teaching role, if you continue to question his theory he will be happy, if you starts to talk against his theory then he won't reply. He will say you need a non-conceptual awareness experience.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 30, 2017 20:33:44 GMT
It can be sure. That's what happens at 2nd position mountain in the mountain metaphor (seeing there is no mountain)....and it's an important juncture for sure. And if one were to just stay there ,that ability to separate SElf from self to observe irritation arising from a position of non-judgment/ non attachment is an auspicious one, and one that will certainly to some degree, indeed, mitigate suffering. But it's still lacking the integration of 'coming full circle.' After all, there are not really two of you. At 3rd position (of the mountain metaphor) there is no experienced division between the one that experiences feelings, and the one that observes from non judgement, non attachment, they are one and the same.... the 'experience' is no longer of one self who is free from attachment/limitation observing another self that experiences stuff that is founded upon a belief that he is not free. AT this juncture, there is no experienced separation.... what arises in terms of feeling/emotion, all that is experienced, is reflective of non-attachment. Well, I tested the limits of the projection of non-attachment among the aristocracy; Enigma, Laffy and Reefs. I was able to prove that it was only intellectual and conditional non-attachment. Meaning non-attachment doesn't mean absolute non-attachment under all conditions. That's when Reefs stepped in as sheriff to restore the shattering of their imagined non attachment and loss of credibility. Sure, it could be argued that full on engagement with life, at times means feeling passionately about what's happening. That said, becoming angered to the degree that you lash out, consistently, when folks disagree with you, as is what mostly seems to happen there, particularly with Laffy and Reefs, is in my opinion, strong evidence that one is only paying lip service to the whole idea of being non-attached. (i think that's what you are also saying above...?)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 20:36:44 GMT
Well, I tested the limits of the projection of non-attachment among the aristocracy; Enigma, Laffy and Reefs. I was able to prove that it was only intellectual and conditional non-attachment. Meaning non-attachment doesn't mean absolute non-attachment under all conditions. That's when Reefs stepped in as sheriff to restore the shattering of their imagined non attachment and loss of credibility. Enigma and Laffy are also problem ? Enigma is very sensitive guy but not problematic he always makes sure he is on the safer side. Laffy fights with people a lot but he is not dangerous he is a good guy as well. Only Reefs is dangerous,a mindless idiot. He is mentally unstable. And I forgot to write about ZD , this guy always wants some people to teach, he wants to perform the teaching role, if you continue to question his theory he will be happy, if you starts to talk against his theory then he won't reply. He will say you need a non-conceptual awareness experience. Reefs actually had more tolerance than either Enigma or Laffy. I had to push him the hardest, but when his limit was reached his ego had to quickly re-affirm itself and the new forum moderator was born.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 20:39:05 GMT
Well, I tested the limits of the projection of non-attachment among the aristocracy; Enigma, Laffy and Reefs. I was able to prove that it was only intellectual and conditional non-attachment. Meaning non-attachment doesn't mean absolute non-attachment under all conditions. That's when Reefs stepped in as sheriff to restore the shattering of their imagined non attachment and loss of credibility. Sure, it could be argued that full on engagement with life, at times means feeling passionately about what's happening. That said, becoming angered to the degree that you lash out, consistently, when folks disagree with you, as is what mostly seems to happen there, particularly with Laffy and Reefs, is in my opinion, strong evidence that one is only paying lip service to the whole idea of being non-attached. (i think that's what you are also saying above...?) Yes, that's what I was referring to. The talking but not much of the walking. It's rather absurd really in light of how much they talk about self-honesty, but yet they don't actually walk it.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 30, 2017 20:46:21 GMT
Enigma and Laffy are also problem ? Enigma is very sensitive guy but not problematic he always makes sure he is on the safer side. Laffy fights with people a lot but he is not dangerous he is a good guy as well. Only Reefs is dangerous,a mindless idiot. He is mentally unstable. And I forgot to write about ZD , this guy always wants some people to teach, he wants to perform the teaching role, if you continue to question his theory he will be happy, if you starts to talk against his theory then he won't reply. He will say you need a non-conceptual awareness experience. Reefs actually had more tolerance than either Enigma or Laffy. I had to push him the hardest, but when his limit was reached his self-identity had to quickly re-affirm itself as the new forum moderator. [/b] Yup. It's a slow build usually, but indeed, He reacts very badly to the sense that he's being disrespected or that he's lost ground in the eyes of others. He needed to become moderator to gain back the ground he felt he'd lost. He was being challenged on several fronts at that time....Gopal too was outright calling him out as a BS-er with regards to all his new "CC business." In boiling over as he did, he adopted a position of hypocrisy in relation to his anti-behavioralism, anti-moralism stance of the past. He demonstrated rather poignantly how egoic attachment to self-identity can wreak havoc. He's now sitting in the position of implementing everything he said he was against previously. And it's all YOUR fault.
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