Post by Figgles on Apr 1, 2018 16:24:32 GMT
Andrew:This reminds me of an interesting situation that happened on gab last year. One of them there, I think maybe Fig, produced a Spira video which talked of the relationship between 'Awareness and the dream' and used it as evidence that they were right about the 'maybe just one focal point' idea. I didn't watch it, because I felt that they were confusing Spira's actual understanding with their conceptual understanding. Spira wasn't personalizing 'Awareness' I am very sure, but the way he spoke about it could easily be taken in such way that lead to a personalizing of 'Awareness'.
Anyway, a couple of months later I was browsing on the subject of MS, and came across a Spira talk in which he addressed this confusion and specifically stated solipsism to be insanity. It was obviously amusing for me.
Anyway, a couple of months later I was browsing on the subject of MS, and came across a Spira talk in which he addressed this confusion and specifically stated solipsism to be insanity. It was obviously amusing for me.
Your amusement was misdirected.
Spira had a very specific criteria for what he meant by "solipsism"...and both E and I agreed that according to that, we were NOT talking 'solipsism.'Keep in mind, it is YOU who keeps insisting that we are solipsists. We've both pointed at that as far as we know re: actual philosphical solipsism, it doesn't hinge upon the seeing that all that appears is empty, nor that all is One. The seeing that nothing is separate is a game changer, right across the board.
non-duality.rupertspira.com/read/all_that_is_ever_known_and_all_that_ever_is154
I like this bit in particular....''I am not suggesting that my model of a multiplicity of minds appearing simultaneously in one Consciousness is an accurate model of experience. There are no accurate mind-made models of the reality of experience. Solipsism is simply an exaggerated form of the ‘I-am-the-centre-of-the-universe’ belief that characterises the apparently separate entity. Non-duality is rather the opposite of this. It is the experiential understanding that there is no centre to the universe. Love is another name for this understanding in which all seeming things are known to be one seamless garment, made out of Consciousness alone, each apparent part intimately connected to all other apparent parts.''
I like this bit in particular....''I am not suggesting that my model of a multiplicity of minds appearing simultaneously in one Consciousness is an accurate model of experience. There are no accurate mind-made models of the reality of experience. Solipsism is simply an exaggerated form of the ‘I-am-the-centre-of-the-universe’ belief that characterises the apparently separate entity. Non-duality is rather the opposite of this. It is the experiential understanding that there is no centre to the universe. Love is another name for this understanding in which all seeming things are known to be one seamless garment, made out of Consciousness alone, each apparent part intimately connected to all other apparent parts.''
And I agree with all he says there, and I suspect E would too. He's not calling his 'model' True, or saying that he is certain that it is...and he's even going as far as to say: "There are no accurate mind-made models of the reality of experience."
E and I both see "all seeming things to be one seamless garment, made out of Consciousness alone, each apparent part intimately connected to all other apparent parts."
The fact that Spira speaks of "apparent parts" should be your giveaway that he is not professing certain knowledge about those parts.
He then goes on to challenge his own expression of this, which is good, but I see this but as key.
It's everything dude. It indicates he's not saying anything drastically different from what E and I are saying.
We aren't arguing for a multiplicity of minds per se, we are saying that the question/issue of whether there is one mind or multiple minds is misconceived from the non-dual perspective. The question just doesn't arise once there has been SR/CC. It is known that reality as a whole is unified, conscious, aware. Everything is a focal point. Equally, there are no focal points at all.
Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4965/consciousness-nature-appearances?page=68#ixzz5BRCnhckv
Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4965/consciousness-nature-appearances?page=68#ixzz5BRCnhckv
"reality as a whole, being unified" does not equal certainty that every apparent thing is consciously self aware.
One unified whole does not necessarily mean that every apparent 'part' experiences.
It's amazing....wtf happened? 
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