Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 4:11:13 GMT
If the thinker is the direct cause of suffering, then there is not non-duality. There are many thinkers who are the causes of their suffering. Therefore, the person who is the thinker that causes suffering, is real, therefore reality is that there are multiple persons that think their way into suffering, which makes suffering an unavoidable function of a universe of multiple entities. The thinker's function is to think, which leads me to thinking that I'm a thinker as well, which presumably is the thing that makes me suffer. So, the reality of separation (of thinkers) makes me suffer. It's all natural then. That's how your logic unfolds. I don't buy into non duality . The moment there is a thinker there is duality . Non duality only applies in the realization itself . There is only what you are . There is no thought of it, awareness of it, reflection of it, comparison of it . Individualisation does happen . Suffering happens because of it . Persons, individuals, all pertain to the thought of I am . The only comparison I know that prompts peeps to say they are illusory is based upon the realization itself where no-one is present . That realization is beyond the mind . The thought of what is illusory pertains to the individualised thought that I am . So in this respect it is the illusory self saying the self is illusory . The only thing real is something that is nothing if one's gauges upon realness of the realization . It's like a reflection of Self saying I am a reflection lol . I'm trying to understand you. You say you don't buy into non duality, but then you say non duality only applies in the realization itself. So you do buy into it? I'm confused. Here's a question that emerges from that. If I know non dual awareness, then how am I able to speak about it dualistically with my mind. It's not a trick question because to be honest with you I have no idea really why that is. All I know is that I'm free of the bondage of self. I'm at peace. That's enough. But then there are times when I want to try and put it into words for no particular reason. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 15, 2017 4:30:01 GMT
I don't buy into non duality . The moment there is a thinker there is duality . Non duality only applies in the realization itself . There is only what you are . There is no thought of it, awareness of it, reflection of it, comparison of it . Individualisation does happen . Suffering happens because of it . Persons, individuals, all pertain to the thought of I am . The only comparison I know that prompts peeps to say they are illusory is based upon the realization itself where no-one is present . That realization is beyond the mind . The thought of what is illusory pertains to the individualised thought that I am . So in this respect it is the illusory self saying the self is illusory . The only thing real is something that is nothing if one's gauges upon realness of the realization . It's like a reflection of Self saying I am a reflection lol . I'm trying to understand you. You say you don't buy into non duality, but then you say non duality only applies in the realization itself. So you do buy into it? I'm confused. Here's a question that emerges from that. If I know non dual awareness, then how am I able to speak about it dualistically with my mind. It's not a trick question because to be honest with you I have no idea really why that is. All I know is that I'm free of the bondage of self. I'm at peace. That's enough. But then there are times when I want to try and put it into words for no particular reason. Ideas are about boundaries. We can't talk about something without defining it in such a way that we also define what it is not. If non-duality has boundaries to it, then we can talk about it in terms of those boundaries that define what it is and what it is. If what it is, is more like the absence of boundaries, then there is nothing to say about what it is. We can only say what it is not, which will have those defining boundaries that we can talk about. So, we clumsily use words like unbounded and timeless and ineffable, which are really boundaries being negated; what it is not. |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 15, 2017 7:32:50 GMT
I don't buy into non duality . The moment there is a thinker there is duality . Non duality only applies in the realization itself . There is only what you are . There is no thought of it, awareness of it, reflection of it, comparison of it . Individualisation does happen . Suffering happens because of it . Persons, individuals, all pertain to the thought of I am . The only comparison I know that prompts peeps to say they are illusory is based upon the realization itself where no-one is present . That realization is beyond the mind . The thought of what is illusory pertains to the individualised thought that I am . So in this respect it is the illusory self saying the self is illusory . The only thing real is something that is nothing if one's gauges upon realness of the realization . It's like a reflection of Self saying I am a reflection lol . I'm trying to understand you. You say you don't buy into non duality, but then you say non duality only applies in the realization itself. So you do buy into it? I'm confused. Here's a question that emerges from that. If I know non dual awareness, then how am I able to speak about it dualistically with my mind. It's not a trick question because to be honest with you I have no idea really why that is. All I know is that I'm free of the bondage of self. I'm at peace. That's enough. But then there are times when I want to try and put it into words for no particular reason. Non duality points to the realisation itself where there is only what you are beyond any self reflection and such likes . This only points to what non duality refers too . In the realisation itself there is no duality / non duality . So when peeps of our self reflective / dual reality start to speak about their non dual nature I don't buy it . I don't buy it that no-one is here and such likes . That too only relates to the realisation itself . The whole quandary regarding being able to speak about non dual awareness is because the moment one speaks of it one is of dual awareness . You can't have a chat about non duality from the point of non duality, it's why when there is the realisation beyond mind, there is not the thought of it . One cannot be conscious of dreaming and talk to their waking partner about the dream as it's happening . |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 15, 2017 7:53:51 GMT
... Individualisation happens because there is the happening of it . There is the journey back to totality so it seems as if the journey and all that entails is key . It happens because of a prejudice that was fed to you as a child, by your parents, society and your Christian religion.  Is that what happened to you? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 9:50:59 GMT
I'm trying to understand you. You say you don't buy into non duality, but then you say non duality only applies in the realization itself. So you do buy into it? I'm confused. Here's a question that emerges from that. If I know non dual awareness, then how am I able to speak about it dualistically with my mind. It's not a trick question because to be honest with you I have no idea really why that is. All I know is that I'm free of the bondage of self. I'm at peace. That's enough. But then there are times when I want to try and put it into words for no particular reason. Non duality points to the realisation itself where there is only what you are beyond any self reflection and such likes . This only points to what non duality refers too . In the realisation itself there is no duality / non duality . So when peeps of our self reflective / dual reality start to speak about their non dual nature I don't buy it . I don't buy it that no-one is here and such likes . That too only relates to the realisation itself . The whole quandary regarding being able to speak about non dual awareness is because the moment one speaks of it one is of dual awareness . You can't have a chat about non duality from the point of non duality, it's why when there is the realisation beyond mind, there is not the thought of it . One cannot be conscious of dreaming and talk to their waking partner about the dream as it's happening . So how are you able to speak of non duality from duality. What has informed duality about nonduality. |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 15, 2017 10:20:46 GMT
Non duality points to the realisation itself where there is only what you are beyond any self reflection and such likes . This only points to what non duality refers too . In the realisation itself there is no duality / non duality . So when peeps of our self reflective / dual reality start to speak about their non dual nature I don't buy it . I don't buy it that no-one is here and such likes . That too only relates to the realisation itself . The whole quandary regarding being able to speak about non dual awareness is because the moment one speaks of it one is of dual awareness . You can't have a chat about non duality from the point of non duality, it's why when there is the realisation beyond mind, there is not the thought of it . One cannot be conscious of dreaming and talk to their waking partner about the dream as it's happening . So how are you able to speak of non duality from duality. What has informed duality about nonduality. What has informed duality about non duality (or the realisation itself) is what you are . There is only what you are as I put it across, there is no other way of putting it across . We can't divide what that is into packages at this point, there is only being what you are . If there is a means to experience duality then there is only what you are experiencing that . If there is no awareness of that duality and yet there is still being what you are, then the moment there is, one can only say what you are has informed what you are that is now aware of duality . If we go down the divine intelligence route or the super consciousness route then it's gonna get messy . If we have no reflection and then we do, there is only what you are informing what you are that one is now reflecting . |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 15, 2017 12:37:36 GMT
... Individualisation happens because there is the happening of it . There is the journey back to totality so it seems as if the journey and all that entails is key . So, suffering as well happens because there is the happening of it, essentially. One can't argue with that, butt the journey of individualisation back to totality is potentially the reason for why I am 'IS' and I am is suffering . It's easy to say It's hot because the sun is present, butt there is a reason for why the sun is present and is hot . |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 15:53:09 GMT
It happens because of a prejudice that was fed to you as a child, by your parents, society and your Christian religion. Is that what happened to you? Except for the Christian religion which I was fortunately spared...  |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Jul 15, 2017 18:25:20 GMT
One can't argue with that, butt the journey of individualisation back to totality is potentially the reason for why I am 'IS' and I am is suffering . It's easy to say It's hot because the sun is present, butt there is a reason for why the sun is present and is hot . I don't think there's a big connection between 'I am' and suffering. Everyone holds concepts of 'I am', and everyone is suffering, more or less. It's the only connection . The connection is based upon the realisation that there can be what you are and no I am . When there is no I am and there is what you are there is the indescribable love / bliss / peace blah blah blah . Tis never the same when there is awareness of I am that is blissful . Can you entertain that I am can be immensely happy and at peace and still be suffering? It's hard to digest butt it's true . You don't have to buy it, I am not a salesman  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 0:58:08 GMT
I don't think there's a big connection between 'I am' and suffering. Everyone holds concepts of 'I am', and everyone is suffering, more or less. It's the only connection . The connection is based upon the realisation that there can be what you are and no I am . When there is no I am and there is what you are there is the indescribable love / bliss / peace blah blah blah . Tis never the same when there is awareness of I am that is blissful . Can you entertain that I am can be immensely happy and at peace and still be suffering? It's hard to digest butt it's true . You don't have to buy it, I am not a salesman You may think that, but it is impossible to be immensely happy, at peace and still be suffering in the same moment. Obviously you can't have positive thoughts and negative feelings at the same time. |
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