Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on May 20, 2023 15:14:44 GMT
Also struggling to see what's so enthralling about the chatbot's assimilation of information. I find it all very unimpressive, as you say, it's just a fancy library. And I'd rather not have to communicate with people via their use of the chatbot, if I wanted to talk to a toaster, I would do. Anyway, whinge over. Jenn was telling me earlier about these videos she's been watching in which dogs and cats have been communicating with humans by learning to press buttons that say various things (including emotions). Now THAT enthrals me. It’s good for letters to the school or solicitors when I can’t be bothered to think 😂😂. Toaster comment made me lol. ah yes, I haven't really experienced its value yet in that way, but can see that it could create nice bureaucratic short cuts at times, which is great for us lazy folks! |
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Post by Figgles on May 20, 2023 17:40:15 GMT
Also struggling to see what's so enthralling about the chatbot's assimilation of information. I find it all very unimpressive, as you say, it's just a fancy library. Exactly!! Couldn't agree more! I find it even more distasteful on a spiritual forum, speaking about stuff that is just not by nature, intellectually based/informationally based to begin with. It takes parroting of a mere conceptual grasp of something heard/read, to a whole new level. I'm curios as the training process for that--looks very cool and I've considered getting one of those button boards for my little guy....I bought him a scratch board as after being trained very well to have his nails trimmed, he suddenly would not tolerate it. He seems to be learning quickly, but what's really interesting is that he suddenly also seems much more tolerant to having his nails clipped now!  It's funny how often I experience that kind of thing.....purchase something to solve a problem/issue, and then before I even receive the purchased item, the issue resolves on it's own. I think E initiated a really good convo about that phenomena on ST a few years back. I know years ago when I'd experience such, I'd look at the action taken/purchase, whatever as a "waste of time/money," but now I see it more as just a necessary sort of cog in the wheel of the overall movement towards resolve that was already in motion. It's not actually "casual" to the resolve, just a facet of the singular movement towards resolve, kind of thing. Anyway, sorry...kind of went off topic there....a little jacked on cup-o-mornin-coffee!  |
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Post by ghostofmuttley on May 20, 2023 20:19:14 GMT
Also struggling to see what's so enthralling about the chatbot's assimilation of information. I find it all very unimpressive, as you say, it's just a fancy library. And I'd rather not have to communicate with people via their use of the chatbot, if I wanted to talk to a toaster, I would do. Anyway, whinge over. Jenn was telling me earlier about these videos she's been watching in which dogs and cats have been communicating with humans by learning to press buttons that say various things (including emotions). Now THAT enthrals me. Some clear, warm spring morning, in the woods, listen to the birdsong.  Really listen. From what I can tell scientists in the past have dismissed it as just mating calls or other simplistic signalling, if even that. But. Man. Some of that stuff is complicated! Intricate! Sometimes, some of it, they're sayin' something! |
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Post by Figgles on May 23, 2023 19:36:50 GMT
Your thin skin is showing JLY.  This is what the term "leading question" means. Your question already pretty much contains the answer. It also is absent some pertinent info. Nice try though. Your ego is wounded because I questioned why you are so enthralled with the Chat-bot answers, so you're now lashing out. All good, it's just what happens with many folks when their views get directly challenged. Instead of trying to discredit me by attacking my character, (you knew damned well through the phrasing of your question what the chat bot would say....yet more evidence that the whole AI Q& A thing, is nothing to get so excited over)... why not simply address the direct points i'm making/have made that you so obviously are taking issue with? All of us on these forums are supposed to be folks who are at very least, interested in going deeper...in being conscious and clear...in looking our BS squarely in the face and acknowledging it where it is....when it is. Direct challenge of views/beliefs is in my opinion, an integral facet of Truth-talk/Nonduality discussion. If someone feels wounded or angered by direct challenge of their views, that is an absolute perfect, cracked window opening for some important inquiry. It's ego standing up and pretty much shouting....here,here....look at THIS...THIS is what's marring the clarity! ST and Gab are not just any 'ol "discussion forums." They are forums where supposedly the main interest is to discuss Absolute/fundamental Truth/Nonduality. That right there changes everything, and I notice you failed to mention forum type in question. Why? You really don't see it as relevant at all? There's several reasons why it is relevant. The first being that good Nonduality discussion forums are not rampant on line....they are rather rare and to find one where folks have been discussing the subject for years on end, who thus, are deeply familiar with personal ontologies and modes of expression, even more rare. The very nature of a strong interest in engaging in Truth-talk/Nonduality discussion indicates different parameters to be in play. It's rare to find folks interested in such discussion at all. To find a community of like-minded/similar interested folks who gather to go deep into "what is actually So," is, to one who holds such an interest, a gold that shines beyond any other. The elephant in the room re: the fact that direct. civil challenge on ST gets shut-down, members get banned/blocked has everything to do with the fact that it IS supposedly a forum dedicated to Truth/being more consciously aware of mind's BS. The refusal on ST to answer to my direct, but civilly/calmly posed questions (questions by the way that were not asked egoically for the purpose of shaming of showing someone else up, but rather for the purpose of pointing to/illuminating Truth) IS that elephant. A true, earnest, sincere interest in Truth will reign supreme over an egoic need to preserve viewpoint/belief, even when that view has a sacred element to it. A true, sincere interest in Truth at all costs means being up for having your views and beliefs directly challenged, dissected, held up to the bright light and scrutiny of inquiry. Not many on ST are up for that and that speaks volumes. Amidst the things/activities I love most in life, Truth-talk/writing about Nonduality/pointing away from delusion, reigns high. I very much wanted to keep engaging in this activity. And like it or not, to write about/talk about Truth, there must be some-thing that is NOT Truth/actual....a delusion, to point away from. For clarity to be talked about and pointed to, delusions must be indicated as such. There were some unfinished discussions still ongoing on ST....inherent to them, some very key and important points that arise as Truth-talk discussion gets into the nuances of what it really means to be SR/awake. I know it's unlikely you can take what you see to be "personal/egoic" reasons for my creation of this forum/continued posting and engaging of posts from ST, out of the equation and that is simply because you obviously don't have reference for a pure, sincere interest in Truth at all costs, thus, you believe that egoic interest must be prevailing here. All good, but just consider the following questions; Why does it bother you that I take your posts from ST and address what I see to be a lack of clarity/delusion over here? Why not simply engage/answer to the points I make? What would it cost you? Are you afraid that you don't have an adequate answer/explanation to the points I make? What if through answering to my points, you were to see that your own position is deluded..? how would that make you feel? Direct challenge should be welcomed with open arms on Truth discussion forums. I love to be challenged and so long as it's done civilly and without personal attack on character, with a sincere interest on the other's part of truly getting to the bottom of things, I engage with relish. I truly don't understand those supposedly interested in Truth-talk who balk and hide away in the face of having their views challenged.
A true interest in what is actually so/Truth has inherent to it, an embracing of having all views...all positions, challenged. If this were any other kind of a forum than one dedicated to Truth/digging deep into what is actually so, I most likely wouldn't feel right dragging posts over here to address what I see to be delusion within them...(fwiw, I also at times share posts where I agree with what's being said!)...but fact is, both ST and gab, ARE supposedly forums dedicated to Absolute Truth and that makes all the difference.
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Post by Figgles on May 23, 2023 19:57:13 GMT
Here JLY, if you'd been more honest, this is how your question would have been framed: Question: In an online, forum setting, said forum being dedicated to "Truth at all costs/seeing mind's machinations for what they are/rooting out false ideas/delusion/erroneous belief/seeing ego for what it is/where it is" why would a banned person start their own forum, cut quotes from the first forum and argue with people who have no interest in engaging the banned person, who incidentally was banned for persistently engaging with those unwilling to engage? Or a way better question would be: In an online forum seeing, said forum being dedicated to "Truth at all costs/seeing mind's machinations for what they are/rooting out false ideas/delusions/erroneous belief/seeing ego for what is/where it is," why would someone who asks pointed, direct, yet civil questions of posts she deems to contain delusion, BE banned/blocked for doing so? Why would certain members, who insist they ARE in fact interested in Truth at all costs, not be willing to answer such civilly, calmly asked, pointed questions? |
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Post by Figgles on May 23, 2023 20:18:02 GMT
He is asking though in a disingenuous way that purposefully frames the question in a way so as to receive the answer he is hoping to receive.
If someone on a forum that discusses yard care, for example, were kicked off for civilly posing questions that challenged other's posts that those others refused to answer/ignored, that would be quiet a different scenario than when the forum(s) in question are supposedly dedicated to ferreting out Absolute Truth...Truth at all costs.
The intent of the forums to 'ferret out Truth' completely changes things.
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on May 23, 2023 20:55:18 GMT
Also struggling to see what's so enthralling about the chatbot's assimilation of information. I find it all very unimpressive, as you say, it's just a fancy library. Exactly!! Couldn't agree more! I find it even more distasteful on a spiritual forum, speaking about stuff that is just not by nature, intellectually based/informationally based to begin with. It takes parroting of a mere conceptual grasp of something heard/read, to a whole new level. I'm curios as the training process for that--looks very cool and I've considered getting one of those button boards for my little guy....I bought him a scratch board as after being trained very well to have his nails trimmed, he suddenly would not tolerate it. He seems to be learning quickly, but what's really interesting is that he suddenly also seems much more tolerant to having his nails clipped now! It's funny how often I experience that kind of thing.....purchase something to solve a problem/issue, and then before I even receive the purchased item, the issue resolves on it's own. I think E initiated a really good convo about that phenomena on ST a few years back. I know years ago when I'd experience such, I'd look at the action taken/purchase, whatever as a "waste of time/money," but now I see it more as just a necessary sort of cog in the wheel of the overall movement towards resolve that was already in motion. It's not actually "casual" to the resolve, just a facet of the singular movement towards resolve, kind of thing. Anyway, sorry...kind of went off topic there....a little jacked on cup-o-mornin-coffee! Yeah, surely a spiritual forum should be the last bastion of spontaneity/authenticity, seems a bit weird that the forum crumbled in about 20 seconds I guess it's just the novelty factor, and that will wear off pretty fast for most. Yeah that is an interesting phenomenon you are describing, I was about to say that I can't recall a situation when I've observed it, but actually, it sort of happened with a tyre situation I had a couple of days ago. Yes....cog in the wheel of the overall movement sounds good. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on May 23, 2023 21:01:33 GMT
Also struggling to see what's so enthralling about the chatbot's assimilation of information. I find it all very unimpressive, as you say, it's just a fancy library. And I'd rather not have to communicate with people via their use of the chatbot, if I wanted to talk to a toaster, I would do. Anyway, whinge over. Jenn was telling me earlier about these videos she's been watching in which dogs and cats have been communicating with humans by learning to press buttons that say various things (including emotions). Now THAT enthrals me. Some clear, warm spring morning, in the woods, listen to the birdsong. Really listen. From what I can tell scientists in the past have dismissed it as just mating calls or other simplistic signalling, if even that. But. Man. Some of that stuff is complicated! Intricate! Sometimes, some of it, they're sayin' something! Nice. I don't have any woods conveniently nearby, but we are fairly out in the countryside, and the birds can get very chatty, next time I notice that, I'm going to pay very close attention. This time of year in Scotland is fantastic for nature watching/interaction, coz all the lambs and calves are in the fields, and they haven't yet learned that they should be cautious of humans. There's a spot I drive to, to see a particular bunch of calves, and if they see my car from a distance, they will come to the fence to say hello. That stuff keeps me sane |
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Post by Figgles on May 23, 2023 21:16:54 GMT
Exactly!! Couldn't agree more! I find it even more distasteful on a spiritual forum, speaking about stuff that is just not by nature, intellectually based/informationally based to begin with. It takes parroting of a mere conceptual grasp of something heard/read, to a whole new level. I'm curios as the training process for that--looks very cool and I've considered getting one of those button boards for my little guy....I bought him a scratch board as after being trained very well to have his nails trimmed, he suddenly would not tolerate it. He seems to be learning quickly, but what's really interesting is that he suddenly also seems much more tolerant to having his nails clipped now! It's funny how often I experience that kind of thing.....purchase something to solve a problem/issue, and then before I even receive the purchased item, the issue resolves on it's own. I think E initiated a really good convo about that phenomena on ST a few years back. I know years ago when I'd experience such, I'd look at the action taken/purchase, whatever as a "waste of time/money," but now I see it more as just a necessary sort of cog in the wheel of the overall movement towards resolve that was already in motion. It's not actually "casual" to the resolve, just a facet of the singular movement towards resolve, kind of thing. Anyway, sorry...kind of went off topic there....a little jacked on cup-o-mornin-coffee! Yeah, surely a spiritual forum should be the last bastion of spontaneity/authenticity, seems a bit weird that the forum crumbled in about 20 seconds I guess it's just the novelty factor, and that will wear off pretty fast for most. I was pondering this odd fascination yesterday and it occurred to me that some folks seem to be regarding ChatAI as though it were some kind of "oracle" that is accessing info. beyond the so called normal sphere of relative info...almost as though it has paranormal nature....and then about a half an hour ago, JLY posted this in response to the question of accuracy as to an answer he received...which seems to confirm that there is perhaps indeed some degree of that 'erroneous' assignation of 'beyond/other-wordly' going on....   Oh my...how perfect is that! Synch!! |
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Post by Figgles on May 23, 2023 21:34:35 GMT
JLY: You just posted this pic in answer to Ina's suggestion that the chat-bot answer came up short; Interesting enough, this provides somewhat of an analogy to what some are erroneously doing re: AI/chat-bot Q & A's. I know as a kid, while I knew darned well the 'magic 8 ball,' had a limited number of answers it could give, I was nonetheless, generally still thrilled how whatever questions was asked, the answer that came up in the little window, seemed to sort of 'magically' provide an answer. There was a leaning towards accepting whatever answer arose, even it didn't align with what I'd previously thought might arise, as it came from an apparent source that was beyond so called "Normal" means of knowing. The whole chat-bot thing is actually very similar with those who are in awe and who are glorifying it, as you kind of seem to be doing. A similarity is that The 'data-base' by which a question can be provided is of course much, much larger than the 8 ball, however, similarly, it still has it's limits. Just as as kids there was a sort of 'wanting' to accredit the magic 8 ball with true magic powers to provide transcendent/other-worldly knowing re: the answers we asked of it, I think with some there is that bent towards the whole AI/chat-bot thing as well. If you look closely though, the answers provided by chat-bots are even less 'magical' than an 8 ball toy....at least with the 8 ball, there is a degree of relative/apparent random/chance...whereas with the chat-bot AI, there is a program in play that dictates the data that will apply. Just because the chat-bot is able to provide meaningful answers to human questions via a means that seems "different/unusual" does not mean that that info. is somehow more trustworthy than what an average person might come up with. It is after all human knowledge that programmed the AI. |
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Really listen. From what I can tell scientists in the past have dismissed it as just mating calls or other simplistic signalling, if even that. But. Man. Some of that stuff is complicated! Intricate! Sometimes, some of it, they're sayin' something!
