ZD's Mistake

Yup, that is so, and also, what so often happens is that with that coming back to this world, there's now a whole suitcase of additional baggage/knowledge that accompanies that return....and that somewhat assuages the experiential coming back because the seeker tells himself that due to this new knowing, he's no longer a seeker. In short, the new conceptual knowledge (it's all alive....I now know for certain that all things are experiencing, perceiving) is used as a substitute for going deeper...for continuing to inquire within...to remain vigilant and present to mind's machinations.




Any 'freedom' that is based upon the presence of conceptual knowledge is but a relative freedom, only. Not to be sneezed at all, but important to see that there is a vast difference between true freedom/absence of the seeker/seeking vs. relative freedom..a relatively speaking, 'better dream/experience.'



Precisely. Fwiw, your posts specifically, as I've been reading them throughout the years, seem to me to be revealing that very 'gradual' coming to greater clarity.

Clarity/wakefulness is always imminent, or not at all. Thus, the experiential circumstances surrounding/correlating with clarity, really should be of very little concern...not of any great important. The question; Am I awake, here and now, can help cut through all that nonsense real quick.

That right there should have been your red flag...your indicator that there was far 'deeper' seeing to be had.

Ultimately, all existential questions..the hows/whys of existence, get seen as misconceived. This dissolves question because the questioner is seen through...seen for what it is!

I think for me ZD, that was my first tip-off that you were merely a mystic and were not actually speaking from a position of impersonal seeing/SR....it was your ongoing insistence that there ARE in fact, mind-satisfying answers to existential questions.

Hint: If you come away feeling satisfied...with a sense of mind's curiosity being fulfilled, it 'aint what is being referenced by the term/pointer "Truth."

All this time ZD, yours is but a mystics view of life....you are still very much seeing from within the dream....you are simply, conceptually characterizing your view to be "beyond" when it isn't at all. A true seeing from beyond the dream will reveal that whether we're talking about a 'body knowing' or an 'intellectual knowing,' both are perceivables/in the dream and not actually a seeing from beyond/prior to. Similarly, a true seeing from beyond will reveal that whether you are seeing an actual shoe or a picture of shoe, BOTH fall under the umbrella of "empty appearance only."

Relatively speaking, yes, it matters whether we're talking a directly experience, real shoe vs. a carboard cut-out or pic of a shoe...but that has nothing to do with Nonduality..seeing through separation.

Seeing through separation means an initial seeing that the mountain is an empty appearance only....from there the seeing moves to an inclusion of that empty appearance within Self, but the mountain never again becomes an inherently existence thing in it's own right. It's appearance is dependent upon the ground from it arises. No separation between the two. But that does not mean the mountain "becomes" abiding itself.

"Deeper functions of mind" are one thing....the shift that transcends mind, another. The shift that is SR reveals all functions of mind AND body to be appearance only.

You are describing the mystics way; Living intuitively...relying upon body intelligence....body knowing vs. intellectual knowledge. Nothing at all wrong with any of that, but it's important to recognize that is NOT "Nonduality."

"Beyond words" is not necessarily "beyond concepts..beyond mind." The answer of "thumps hand on ground," is still ultimately, a mind-based/conceptual answer to a mind-based/conceptual question.

The term "non-conceptual" as a reference to Truth = a seeing that is beyond mind.

I agree with Satchi, Koans are at best, attempts to stop mind in it's tracks...not to engage a deeper facet of minding/conceptualizing.

Waking up means seeing from beyond ALL minding.