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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:08:05 GMT
Yes, and all such questions that are addressed with a spiritual focus are then of the realm of New Age/mysticism and not Truth. From a vantage point of fundamental Truth, those kinds of questions are entirely misconceived.
ZD, Muttley, Reefs and others there who keep looking to the dream-scape, to the 'processes' of mind with the idea that in doing so, they are apprehending absolute Truth need to stop seeking Truth from within the dream....it is only apprehended from seeing/realizing beyond the dream...beyond mind.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:12:21 GMT
From an impersonal view, that is no longer a given...THAT mind is the creative source of objects. If you go that route far enough, prior to mind, then mind too is but an object!...in that case though, an erroneously imagined one.
Mind is simply a label we give to an appearing something/appearing facet of experience. It has no fundamental, inherent existence....it is part and parcel of the changing landscape of experience itself and not abidingly existent.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:17:41 GMT
Bingo! And that's because he's talking about all this from a vantage point within the dream vs. beyond.
From within the dream, all those kinds of questions about what "actually/really/Truly" causes/catalyzes/creates what, are misconceived.
The conversation about how mind forms boundaries is not a conversation at all pertinent to Nonduality. Mental categories...pyschology....the science behind the ways of the brain and such, all 'in the dream.'
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:22:26 GMT
To say that boundaries appear and disappear and to equate that with modification of mind, is just to speak to change/mind going hand in hand. He's not at all speaking to the mechanics of 'how' stuff appears like you are.
Once we get into the whole idea of 'creation,' as in mind 'creating/catalyzing' appearances, we're entering into "Truth" territory....that is, if the context of the conversation....forum subject is generally considered to be "Truth" vs. brain science.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:23:49 GMT
Neither how or why are for Nonduality...the seeing of what is fundamentally so.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:26:07 GMT
Right. So why the hell do those questions/answers get so damned much air-time on ST?...you and ZD in particlar spend way sooo much talking about that stuff. Why?
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:30:24 GMT
See, you're doing it again. You invoke a relative context as though it has some relevance to Truth.
That question asked relatively speaking is a very different question than when asked from the impersonal. The content of the dream in general is not reliable when it comes to ascertaining the fundamental actuality/Truth of the matter.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:33:54 GMT
You always resort to this lame argument when you've accidentally gone done the path of inadvertently mixing context....misconstruing something that is a perceivable...ephemeral, for something with fundamental substance.
Again, this is why the very step to conceptually grasping the basics of Nonduality should be getting clear about what changes...what doesn't. Most on this forum are still not seeing that clearly...they are mixing up perceivables with what abides.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 17:39:25 GMT
If you reserve the term "actual" on these forums for "Truth" you don't run into this kind of confused nonsense.
In the realm of the dream, senses are far more trustworthy than imagination....boundaries that define objects are not imagined IF an object is what's appearing in the dream. A dream-object = dream boundary. In the dream, it's ALL dream-stuff. That's what's important to see in terms of realizing what is actually so.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 4, 2022 18:41:30 GMT
There you go again erroneously asserting bridges between the dream and transcendent seeing. There are none. You're not going to find the fundamental Truth by looking at dream-content. Only a seeing from beyond/prior to mind will do.
The seeing through/absence of the separate volitional person, of separation in general is not an experience within the dream. Oneness is not a conceptual something nor an experience that appears. It's the fundamental reality/Truth.
The sense of separation is more than just an erroneous assumption, although that is a facet of it for sure...but ultimately, that sense of separation = a locus of seeing that is mired in the dream...the apprehension of Truth requires a shift in that locus, to beyond/prior to mind.
You can spend a lifetime looking AT mind...trying to unravel unconscious assumptions about what's going on, but absent that shift, at best all you'll have is a mere conceptual grasp of what Nonduality is indicating.
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