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Post by someNothing on Nov 11, 2020 13:03:03 GMT
My feelings have not been mixed. I watched for 23 years, unbeknownst to me until the last five years, how a narcissist eats away at the very fabric of any potential for 'betterment'. My brother was married to one, and they had two children (two whole other stories). They are still grappling with very insecure world views due to the fabric from which they're bound to derive their sense of self from. Now, how that will translate in their future, sure, I don't know. Maybe something great becomes of it all. Life's big.
While I agree about the justice needing to be done, and the needs to minimize inflicting/controlling on an international scale, most if not every action he has made has been to serve one thing only. I don't do social media either, and I wouldn't say I judge, per se. In my opinion, there is no 'who' about it. It's completely unconscious and, as such, is mostly very low level human capacities giving voice and legitimacy to other dream characters of the same ilk. I believe Trump, for the most part, empowers hate, fear, and baseline wants and desires. For many, that's exactly what they want to hear.
To be clear, I think that to be involved in politics requires a certain kind of character, so maybe that's just how it goes. And yes, power corrupts. If you go to Capitol Hill to work, you better take on some animalistic traits in order to survive. But, equally, there are those who are able to balance those necessities out with a bit of higher-minded potentials. DT is nowhere near capable of any of that; it's all ego, all the time. I wish for him what I do for anyone.... to wake up. For DT, it is to wake from the relative nightmare that is being projected into the world.
yep I totally see your point here, and I found it well articulated. This is one of those slightly odd situations in which even though I totally see your point, it doesn't affect my sense of things. Sometimes things can be hashed out and a change of view can happen as a result of that....a new perspective arises....but Trump discussions often seem to defy that! On another hand, I have been a fan of AOC for a long time, and have always liked Sanders (though at this point I find that he bows to the interest of the DNC far more than I'm comfortable with). My politics is not cohesive and I don't fit into an easy box. My positive sense of Trump requires me to almost totally tune out everything he says lol. When I tune into Trump's energy (beyond all his noise), I get a sense of 'something' I can relate to. When I tune into Biden, I don't get a negative sense, I just get a 'nothingness'...a 'blankness', like there's nothing really there...like he's nothing much more than a 'puppet' or 'figurehead' for others.. Again, that's all just intuitive, I really don't expect it to be respected as such, and in one way I'm really just talking for the sake of talking (I can't really talk to friends in the way that I spoke there...it's too 'spiritual' sounding). Perhaps you see some good in what Trump does as it aligns with many Brits' desires for world politics to be less governed by Americans, especially since the Thatcher-Reagan years. Not sure.
You have alluded to being involved in healing practices, and you prefer to intuitively move into understanding others. I sense there's a compassionate side of you that senses DT's pain and suffering. Something to consider.
Biden has just been rounded by decades of politics and, of course, has endured his own personal travesties. To that extent, we'll likely see some degree of normalcy and politics as usual. Predictability and tangible compassion are the reasons he was elected, from what I can see. He's not a revolutionary.
True "spirituality" is always revolutionary and about revealing the ignorance of Truth (which is Absolute), and not so much about worldly power (which is relative).
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Nov 11, 2020 13:17:06 GMT
yep I totally see your point here, and I found it well articulated. This is one of those slightly odd situations in which even though I totally see your point, it doesn't affect my sense of things. Sometimes things can be hashed out and a change of view can happen as a result of that....a new perspective arises....but Trump discussions often seem to defy that! On another hand, I have been a fan of AOC for a long time, and have always liked Sanders (though at this point I find that he bows to the interest of the DNC far more than I'm comfortable with). My politics is not cohesive and I don't fit into an easy box. My positive sense of Trump requires me to almost totally tune out everything he says lol. When I tune into Trump's energy (beyond all his noise), I get a sense of 'something' I can relate to. When I tune into Biden, I don't get a negative sense, I just get a 'nothingness'...a 'blankness', like there's nothing really there...like he's nothing much more than a 'puppet' or 'figurehead' for others.. Again, that's all just intuitive, I really don't expect it to be respected as such, and in one way I'm really just talking for the sake of talking (I can't really talk to friends in the way that I spoke there...it's too 'spiritual' sounding). Perhaps you see some good in what Trump does as it aligns with many Brits' desires for world politics to be less governed by Americans, especially since the Thatcher-Reagan years. Not sure.
You have alluded to being involved in healing practices, and you prefer to intuitively move into understanding others. I sense there's a compassionate side of you that senses DT's pain and suffering. Something to consider.
Biden has just been rounded by decades of politics and, of course, has endured his own personal travesties. To that extent, we'll likely see some degree of normalcy and politics as usual. Predictability and tangible compassion are the reasons he was elected, from what I can see. He's not a revolutionary.
True "spirituality" is always revolutionary and about revealing the ignorance of Truth (which is Absolute), and not so much about worldly power (which is relative).
yeah that's an aspect for sure, but it goes beyond that. In my ideal world, I see no borders, no passports, no customs. I see totally free movement, people free to move much like animals migrate organically. But, in a choice between a system of global governance by a gang of Bilderbergers, and a system of relatively sovereign nation states, I would choose the latter. I could explain why, but it's probably not that relevant. In a nutshell, and perhaps oddly, I see sovereign nation states as closer to my ideal, than a system of global control (I could well be wrong about that though). And yes, to your other points too  I don't know how much you know about what's going on in the UK, but to give you 2 examples: ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-army-begin-coronavirus-mass-testing-in-liverpool/www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/12008183/digital-health-passports-could-help-get-football-fans-back-into-stadiumsNow, obviously some folks are in support of these measures, and some are not. I am not, but I've learned that trying to show people (let alone persuade people) why this is not a good thing, is very hard to do...so I don't tend to try. If you are in support of these measures, Biden is definitely the right person for you. You are far more likely to have these measures in place under Biden, than Trump. Biden is far more a globalist than Trump (just as the few Presidents before Trump were globalist). |
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Post by someNothing on Nov 11, 2020 14:07:48 GMT
My interpretation of demographics far exceeds race. So, yeah, color of skin is definitely a distraction. But, when taking the time to walk in another's shoes, one can begin to see how the values, world views, senses of self, etc begin to take form.
I do get the idea that all of this may be more than what appears to be going on. I tend toward simplicity when it comes to observable behavior, and reflect on it in a way that gels with what I might consider deeper human potentials. As for politics, I've admitted many times, I rarely vote "for" anyone, but more "against" another in hopes of increasing the probability of getting an actual adult in the room. If Trump is the best we got for president from any party....  The last "adult" in the room was Herbert Walker.  McCain 2000 was about the only glimmer of hope I ever had during a primary season, and yeah, the quality of the choices is a major source of my cynicism.
That said, politics is ultimately now quite a simple affair, especially given the velocity of information: the more wealth and power any one individual or group of individuals has, the more incentive they have, to lie.
I getcha.
But, again, not adapting to, learning about, and understanding the demographics and remaining fossilized and entranced by ideology leads to such extreme necessities.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by muttley on Nov 11, 2020 18:13:26 GMT
When it comes to politics, fear is the only game in town, until the rules of the game are somehow radically altered. As you alluded, it's not a one-sided affair, and the magician always wants you to look in a direction other than where the action is.  Sure, most of life is fear-based, and politics falls within that category. I tend to look at fear, as I do at any other duality, as being on a continuum. In this case, it might be love-fear, truth-fear, etc. It's easy to imagine any number of them in a decision-making process.
I've never been affiliated with any party, and can imagine myself much like Andrew in that regard, social libertarian or compassionate anarchist if I had to put a label on it. I don't really wheel and deal much with worldly power type of things and tend to bring such decisions back down to observational phenomena and potential alignment ("as above, so below"). If and when I do get involved in a convo on it, I tend to equally piss of people from the "left" and "right", which is typically more revealing about the voters and the candidates' intentions in their pitches.
All that said, four years of watching DT and seeing the unfolding outcomes of this election have been very revealing, to say the least.
Has it revealed anything to you about the media or academia or career politicians or the big tech companies or wall street or the entertainment industry?
The only thing it revealed to me about them was the lengths that they'll go to. I've never seen them react in such extremes, or in such a unified front. It also revealed a nexus between that group and the military industrial complex that I would have dismissed as a conspiracy theory just two years ago.
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Nov 11, 2020 18:18:55 GMT
I'm in danger of falling down an "LOA powerlessness" well here 'cause I honestly don't see any systemic solution to the underlying social ailments that can be expressed in any sort of abstract system. 
We can look back in history and discern some actions certain groups took that led to periods of relative peace and prosperity, but it's all incredibly nuanced, fluid, and situational. Today's blessing becomes tomorrow's curse, and vice-versa. Convincing people otherwise is the common way to power.
yeah, agree with both points. The 2 movements I can relate to are systemic solutions, and as such, would fail in their attempt at some point....but they semi-advocate being close to the point where models fail! In a sense, I see them as political versions of the much debated 'spiritual bridge'. So LOA is pretty much all I've got when it comes to the material stuff. Abe-Hicks has been at the forefront of my attention this year, more than they have in the last 13 years. Only when I first discovered them, did I give them as much attention as I'm giving now. But even then the movement comes in waves....I go through phases lately of surrendering all mind movements, all interests, all desires, and sitting quietly for longish periods... just because it's really the only thing to be done. It can certainly be an opportunity for a self-honesty check, that's for sure! A negative emotion isn't necessarily indicative of anything existential, but then, on the other hand, once you've danced this close to the void, strange and synchronous goings-on can nudge ya', as I think you might know what I mean.  |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by muttley on Nov 11, 2020 18:23:37 GMT
The last "adult" in the room was Herbert Walker. McCain 2000 was about the only glimmer of hope I ever had during a primary season, and yeah, the quality of the choices is a major source of my cynicism.
That said, politics is ultimately now quite a simple affair, especially given the velocity of information: the more wealth and power any one individual or group of individuals has, the more incentive they have, to lie.
I getcha.
But, again, not adapting to, learning about, and understanding the demographics and remaining fossilized and entranced by ideology leads to such extreme necessities.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum
Well, this brings us to the current events playing out in the moment, and we likely disagree about who is ultimately lying about certain specific issues.
There are only degrees of relative truth in politics, noone who isn't a hypocrite and it's always about influencing opinion. But, the fault for deception ultimately lies with the deceived, especially in times as extreme as this.
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Post by someNothing on Nov 11, 2020 18:40:58 GMT
Perhaps you see some good in what Trump does as it aligns with many Brits' desires for world politics to be less governed by Americans, especially since the Thatcher-Reagan years. Not sure.
You have alluded to being involved in healing practices, and you prefer to intuitively move into understanding others. I sense there's a compassionate side of you that senses DT's pain and suffering. Something to consider.
Biden has just been rounded by decades of politics and, of course, has endured his own personal travesties. To that extent, we'll likely see some degree of normalcy and politics as usual. Predictability and tangible compassion are the reasons he was elected, from what I can see. He's not a revolutionary.
True "spirituality" is always revolutionary and about revealing the ignorance of Truth (which is Absolute), and not so much about worldly power (which is relative).
yeah that's an aspect for sure, but it goes beyond that. In my ideal world, I see no borders, no passports, no customs. I see totally free movement, people free to move much like animals migrate organically. But, in a choice between a system of global governance by a gang of Bilderbergers, and a system of relatively sovereign nation states, I would choose the latter. I could explain why, but it's probably not that relevant. In a nutshell, and perhaps oddly, I see sovereign nation states as closer to my ideal, than a system of global control (I could well be wrong about that though). And yes, to your other points too I don't know how much you know about what's going on in the UK, but to give you 2 examples: ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-army-begin-coronavirus-mass-testing-in-liverpool/www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/12008183/digital-health-passports-could-help-get-football-fans-back-into-stadiumsNow, obviously some folks are in support of these measures, and some are not. I am not, but I've learned that trying to show people (let alone persuade people) why this is not a good thing, is very hard to do...so I don't tend to try. If you are in support of these measures, Biden is definitely the right person for you. You are far more likely to have these measures in place under Biden, than Trump. Biden is far more a globalist than Trump (just as the few Presidents before Trump were globalist). Sounds very much like the allegorical Garden of Eden. If you ever get the desire, you might read up on the tale of the two trees in that very otherworldly garden. In how I interpret it, it very much points to the perspectives of duality (Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) and nonduality (Tree of Life). Feel free to throw aside any heavily biblical nuances that might throw you off the broader perspective, assuming you grew up with a bit of that conditioning aspect of culture. Most of churchy stuff seemed consumed with doing what's good, avoiding evil temptations, and the multitudinous forms of hypocrisy born thereof, if you know what I mean.
As for the Tree of Life, look no further; it's been prior to mind the whole dang time.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 18:46:03 GMT
In a way, Trump is no longer relevant Change the subject much? I'm sorry, have we met? Hi, I'm Dan.  |
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Post by someNothing on Nov 11, 2020 18:54:20 GMT
Sure, most of life is fear-based, and politics falls within that category. I tend to look at fear, as I do at any other duality, as being on a continuum. In this case, it might be love-fear, truth-fear, etc. It's easy to imagine any number of them in a decision-making process.
I've never been affiliated with any party, and can imagine myself much like Andrew in that regard, social libertarian or compassionate anarchist if I had to put a label on it. I don't really wheel and deal much with worldly power type of things and tend to bring such decisions back down to observational phenomena and potential alignment ("as above, so below"). If and when I do get involved in a convo on it, I tend to equally piss of people from the "left" and "right", which is typically more revealing about the voters and the candidates' intentions in their pitches.
All that said, four years of watching DT and seeing the unfolding outcomes of this election have been very revealing, to say the least.
Has it revealed anything to you about the media or academia or career politicians or the big tech companies or wall street or the entertainment industry?
The only thing it revealed to me about them was the lengths that they'll go to. I've never seen them react in such extremes, or in such a unified front. It also revealed a nexus between that group and the military industrial complex that I would have dismissed as a conspiracy theory just two years ago.
Sure, most of societal drama is about being right, gaining power, making money, vanity, holding up and hiding behind the masks, etc etc etc... mostly without being conscious and/or honest. Yes, weaponizing is what they see as ultimately necessary to coerce, corral and control when the levy breaks.
"They all claim that they have 'the Answer'
When they don't even know the question
They're just a bunch of liars
They just want your money
They just want your consciousness " ~Dead Kennedys
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 19:00:45 GMT
Imagine the blowback after the inauguration...  Fuck Joes call for unity. I hope the payback is brutal. The call for unity seems absurd, just as here....the call for unity over Brexit was absurd. Here in the UK, there has actually been an interesting unity this year between most on the right, and some on the left....in their protests against what they see as totalitarian measures. But now there is a new divide between those protesting those measures, and those that want the measures. Nevertheless, I see the change in the nature of the divide as a slightly positive thing. I guess people have always been a slave to their beliefs, resistant to change, and preferring to stick with confirmation biases. |
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