Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 23:53:28 GMT
How do we approach that statement to find out if 'directly seeing' involves fact or self deception?  All depends who the 'we' is, and if any of 'em are actually truly interested in finding out or not, or if they're just playing games.  What does what's factual and self deception have to do with others? It's ones own problem and so one has to resolve it themselves, isn't it? Do 'we' need to know how deception arises? |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 25, 2017 2:00:06 GMT
All depends who the 'we' is, and if any of 'em are actually truly interested in finding out or not, or if they're just playing games. What does what's factual and self deception have to do with others? It's ones own problem and so one has to resolve it themselves, isn't it? Do 'we' need to know how deception arises? I dunno. You're the one who used the term 'we.' |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 14:36:18 GMT
What does what's factual and self deception have to do with others? It's ones own problem and so one has to resolve it themselves, isn't it? Do 'we' need to know how deception arises? I dunno. You're the one who used the term 'we.' Jed McKenna would be proud of your dodging the questions. Hehe So let's look again. You can't directly see if others are percievers, but you can directly see the content of Consciousness IS Consciousness? |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Sept 25, 2017 14:43:00 GMT
I dunno. You're the one who used the term 'we.' Jed McKenna would be proud of your dodging the questions. Hehe So let's look again. You can't directly see if others are percievers, but you can directly see the content of Consciousness IS Consciousness? Yes, it's possible to 'see' Reality because it is real. It's not possible to know anything for certain about the waking dream because it is a dream. |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 25, 2017 16:26:29 GMT
Jed McKenna would be proud of your dodging the questions. Hehe So let's look again. You can't directly see if others are percievers, but you can directly see the content of Consciousness IS Consciousness? Yup. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 16:47:17 GMT
Jed McKenna would be proud of your dodging the questions. Hehe So let's look again. You can't directly see if others are percievers, but you can directly see the content of Consciousness IS Consciousness? Yup. Are you aware of how self-deception arises? Self-deception being the delusions that the mind indulges in and imposes upon itself and upon others. Are you aware of how it arises?  |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 26, 2017 16:12:09 GMT
Are you aware of how self-deception arises? Self-deception being the delusions that the mind indulges in and imposes upon itself and upon others. Are you aware of how it arises? Self deception (in the context we're talking here) is all about thinking you know stuff for certain about experiential content. It involves not yet having realized the emptiness of form....ALL form. And... delusions cannot really be 'imposed' upon another....they'd need to have the same foggy glasses on, to actually be deluded by the words of another. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 17:18:51 GMT
Are you aware of how self-deception arises? Self-deception being the delusions that the mind indulges in and imposes upon itself and upon others. Are you aware of how it arises? Self deception (in the context we're talking here) is all about thinking you know stuff for certain about experiential content. It involves not yet having realized the emptiness of form....ALL form. And... delusions cannot really be 'imposed' upon another....they'd need to have the same foggy glasses on, to actually be deluded by the words of another. No, no, no, I am not interested in a superficial explanation. It's the same superficiality that characterizes all the discussions about realizations, just empty words. Anyone can say I realized this and I realized that, but how does one know if it isn't self-deception? I asked you a very specific question which looks beyond the superficiality of words... So lets try this again. Are you aware of how self-deception 'arises'? |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 26, 2017 20:24:55 GMT
Self deception (in the context we're talking here) is all about thinking you know stuff for certain about experiential content. It involves not yet having realized the emptiness of form....ALL form. And... delusions cannot really be 'imposed' upon another....they'd need to have the same foggy glasses on, to actually be deluded by the words of another. No, no, no, I am not interested in a superficial explanation. It's the same superficiality that characterizes all the discussions about realizations, just empty words. Anyone can say I realized this and I realized that, but how does one know if it isn't self-deception? I asked you a very specific question which looks beyond the superficiality of words... So lets try this again. Are you aware of how self-deception 'arises'? What exactly IS self-deception if not a deceptive thought/belief? Thus, it arises just as any other thought arises, but in the case of a 'deceptive' thought, we're talking about a thought that is mistaken for Truth...right? (perhaps you are defining 'self deception' in a different way from that...? If so, please do share...) What you are calling a 'superficial explanation,' above, is really just evidence of your own misunderstanding of what my words are pointing to. Indeed, absent direct reference for the realization being spoken about, the words will seem to be meaningless. |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by Enigma on Sept 26, 2017 22:12:04 GMT
Self deception (in the context we're talking here) is all about thinking you know stuff for certain about experiential content. It involves not yet having realized the emptiness of form....ALL form. And... delusions cannot really be 'imposed' upon another....they'd need to have the same foggy glasses on, to actually be deluded by the words of another. No, no, no, I am not interested in a superficial explanation. It's the same superficiality that characterizes all the discussions about realizations, just empty words. Anyone can say I realized this and I realized that, but how does one know if it isn't self-deception?I asked you a very specific question which looks beyond the superficiality of words... So lets try this again. Are you aware of how self-deception 'arises'? Because it's self evident and not of the mind. It won't make sense to someone who hasn't realized. |
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