|
Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2020 17:12:50 GMT
I have not been arguing against that. Obviously, where there is suffering, there is not acceptance. That's a given. However, there are stories of folks, immersed within suffering, who then surrender completely, and cease pushing against the arising conditions that they have been resisting. And in the instance of that surrender, suffering ceases. If they cease pushing, then that's a new creation. That's not possible too. So where there is pushing, it's impossible that that pushing will suddenly cease? All phenomenal arisings come and go. Thus, the appearance of pushing is at some point, going to ebb..one way or another...nothing that appears in the dream abides.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2020 17:18:17 GMT
Do you believe that experience can convey the transcendent truth? This is something you can't understand too. But I won't blame you for this too. Why won't you answer him? Do you believe that experience can convey transcendent Truth? If so, that goes against what you've been saying relative to the appearing people/perceiving/experiencing. Just as you cannot know absolutely whether the appearance of experiencing/perceiving of the person before you, you also cannot know absolutely if an appearance of girls appearing/disappearing within your experience seemingly in accordance with your thoughts/feelings, your 'control,' actually means that their coming and going is under your control. All you know is what is appearing...your sense of control is also an appearance....as is the correlation of thoughts/feelings/manifestation.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2020 17:25:57 GMT
So for you, hope and expectation are the same thing? I disagree. One can 'hope/desire' for a specific outcome, but deep down not expect it, or he can hope and be expectant that what is hoping for, is in fact coming. Consult your English dictionary. ex·pec·ta·tion /ˌekspekˈtāSH(ə)n/ Learn to pronounce noun noun: expectation; plural noun: expectations a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future. "reality had not lived up to expectations" Whatever you word you use, I strongly believe that's still be a problem. Deep acceptance would collapse your undesired reality completely and something new would emerge. But I know deep acceptance is merely impossible to do. "Deep acceptance" does not mean that the sense of caring stops arising. And even if caring DID stop arising, that does not necessarily mean that the appearing conditions will completely cease. But so long as there is deep acceptance, there is no need for appearing conditions to cease, or to conform completely to our preferences, for peace to be. From where I stand, the appearing world is never going to comform completely to align with all my preferences, and that a-okay. There would be no movement, no interest if not for that up and down-ing. Do you see this 'deep acceptance' where all caring ceases, you are speaking of, as an actual possibility? Do you know of anyone who deeply accepts everything (as per your definition of deep acceptance) and if so, is their manifest world completely in conformance with their preferences? Which would necessarily mean, their roller coaster is a continuous straight line...never dips down....?
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2020 17:27:32 GMT
If your roller-coaster is still dipping into the suffering zone, then despite what you think, you actually still do. The mental overlay that gets layered upon non-problematic dips of the roller-coaster to take it down to suffering, hinge upon an imagined separate volitional person. This separate volitional person has gone away from me long time ago. What everybody here knows the truth is, I am awareness and everything is appearing to them, but what I additionally knows here is, What's appearing to me is created by me(emerging from my view point). Do you still at times, suffer?
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2020 17:34:48 GMT
Recently Raj, there seems to be this strange sort of 'competitiveness' emanating from you where I am concerned. What's up? You say the same people in your life continue to exist even after you have seen the truth but I say that can't be the case. I don't know why this is happening to me this way but I have been consciously seeing this. You've missed the point I was trying to make, but that's okay. The 'people' who appear to you and piss you off are not actually the problem. If you suffer in the presence of a particular person, it's not HIM that's the problem, it's the SVP and his judgements about that particular person, and his behaviors, that are. You don't need for something that is appearing to disappear in order for the suffering you experience in that face of that, to end. If every somewhat difficult person I've ever experienced had disappeared from my life, I'd be missing a good chunk of my family....pets I've had....friends....sounds rather hellish to me. Are you saying that your life is completely free of all difficult people....or is that just how you know things will be if/when complete acceptance becomes the case for you?
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2020 17:39:54 GMT
And to address your point; If I really want someone out of my life, it's a pretty easy fix. What I am questioning is that you think you 'need' to move people out of your life in order to not suffer. I've got all sorts of folks who were at one time in my life, that are no longer....it's not as though every single person I've met continues to appear in my present story. If a difficult person is causing you to suffer and you move him out because you cannot tolerate him, you may find that very soon, another with the very same set of traits of will appear. Remember that old adage... what we resist, persists...? This is very good observation and I am not sure you are talking from direct seeing. If you have met up with such a situation, you have observed something. But the truth is, the above line is only true if you consciously push people away from you, If people moves away due to your new clarity, then that's an end. Yes, I've experienced that what I resist, persists. That if I really take issue with something and manage to delete it from experience, not having made peace with it, it's likely to arise over and over again until I have. I've also experienced making peace with something difficult and it does end...move out of experience. What I am not agreeing to though is calling what appears to be going on there, an absolute truth....an absolute law. It's merely a description of how the dream has moved, is moving. It too is dream-content and regarding such, there are no absolute. I've also experienced making peace with a difficult person who has stayed in my life, enriching it, so you cannot absolutely predict how life will move, what specifically will manifest/appear.
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Feb 22, 2020 18:27:41 GMT
yes, this is something I definitely can not prove you. It's not possible.Right. And it's not even possible for you to prove to yourself that that is what is REALLY/Actually happening (that you are controlling their appearance/disappearance) and that is because, people appearing to you and then moving out of your experience, is dream-stuff...not Truthy....you cannot look to the content of your dream to know for absolute certain either about something within the dream or beyond the dream. Dream content is not Truthy. He doesn't actually need to 'prove' to us of what he concludes about his experience. Doesn't matter. Don't care.
|
|
|
Post by someNothing on Mar 15, 2020 16:21:44 GMT
The “one who suffers” is in the story. Do you identify with the “one in the story” or “That” within which “the story” is watched? Take a moment of silence to SEE. Right here. Right now. No theory. Just plain simple... I am watching the story but the way the story moves it is carrying the feeling for me and for everybody else in this universe. Deep acceptance to what it is now might change the story, I don't deny it but story has to change for your freedom. Abiding in the realization of Truth puts all sense/feeling of “me and for everybody else in the universe” out front/within what you actually already are prior to the conditioned unconscious beliefs giving rise to the appearance of thoughts that there actually are things such as a separate “me, everyone else, universe”.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:49:41 GMT
I am watching the story but the way the story moves it is carrying the feeling for me and for everybody else in this universe. Deep acceptance to what it is now might change the story, I don't deny it but story has to change for your freedom. Abiding in the realization of Truth puts all sense/feeling of “me and for everybody else in the universe” out front/within what you actually already are prior to the conditioned unconscious beliefs giving rise to the appearance of thoughts that there actually are things such as a separate “me, everyone else, universe”. I am not sure what you are talking related to what I have written.
|
|
|
Post by someNothing on Mar 15, 2020 16:59:41 GMT
Abiding in the realization of Truth puts all sense/feeling of “me and for everybody else in the universe” out front/within what you actually already are prior to the conditioned unconscious beliefs giving rise to the appearance of thoughts that there actually are things such as a separate “me, everyone else, universe”. I am not sure what you are talking related to what I have written. The story (me, other, universe, movement) is all out front/within; not what YOU actually are, what actually IS.
|
|