Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 4:16:25 GMT
Nor is training for the 100 metre sprint a cause of getting a gold medal, but on the other hand you're unlikely to get that medal if you don't train and you'll probably need a coach as well. You're equating meditation practice with training for skill acquisition. SR is not an acquired skill....not an accomplishment, acquisition at all. SR does not involve learning, training or acquiring new knowledge. Rather, it's an 'unlearning'...an 'un knowing' of stuff that was previously known for certain and never questioned. I didn't say SR is a skill or accomplishment. But meditation practice is. It is the skill of discrimination between unchanging awareness and changing phenomena. Only grace can "cause" SR after sufficient ripening of the individual soul or jiva. Then that state beyond limitation is also beyond learning or unlearning. The stuff that was previously known remains as it is. There is only a shift of perspective which reveals you are unlimited infinite awareness. Experience continues as before complete with ego which can experience the bliss of Being in time. |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969 
|
Adya
Sept 1, 2019 5:02:03 GMT
Post by Enigma on Sept 1, 2019 5:02:03 GMT
Yes, the power of futility. (My #1 best seller, now in paperback)  The complete and utter failure to practice his way to freedom. But look at the devotion. The only thing he ever needed on the pathless path leading to the gateless gate. Yes! And all the practice in the world will not 'cause' devotion. One who is wholly dedicated to practice is demonstrating the presence of devotion...and THAT, while not a sure-fire path or 'cause' to SR either, seems to make for a very auspicious 'correlate.' Auspicious correlate indeed! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 5:17:58 GMT
Yes! And all the practice in the world will not 'cause' devotion. One who is wholly dedicated to practice is demonstrating the presence of devotion...and THAT, while not a sure-fire path or 'cause' to SR either, seems to make for a very auspicious 'correlate.' Auspicious correlate indeed! Auspicious nonsense is what it is which doesn't have any basis in reality. All the devotion in the world to make a million dollars will mean nothing if you don't do any work to earn it. You and figs seem to be in deep denial and I really don't understand why. The common sense I speak is contrary to your agenda, whatever that is. It's a mystery although it's an illustration of how dangerous nonduality as a philosophy can be to the mind when it doesn't go hand in hand with direct experience through practice. |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Adya
Sept 1, 2019 5:25:21 GMT
Post by Enigma on Sept 1, 2019 5:25:21 GMT
Yes, the power of futility. (My #1 best seller, now in paperback) The complete and utter failure to practice his way to freedom. But look at the devotion. The only thing he ever needed on the pathless path leading to the gateless gate. It got to the point of the final letting go which the ripening of practice had facilitated. Obviously not, as it led to utter futility. However, that's not what it says on your meditation brochure. Right here it says "Enlightenment facilitated by the ripening of practice." Sounds like BS to me.  |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Adya
Sept 1, 2019 5:27:40 GMT
Post by Enigma on Sept 1, 2019 5:27:40 GMT
True. Devotion comes first which leads to practice which gets results. Where there is true devotion, sincerity, willingness/openness, looking at what needs to be looked at, happens naturally. No formal, ongoing, effortful meditation 'practice' necessary. Again though, I have nothing against an interest to meditate, nothing even against a 'plan' to meditate, it's just important to see/acknowledge that as a practice, it's not a cause to SR. Preeeeecisely. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 5:30:39 GMT
Adya's practice wasn't a waste of time. It got to the point of the final letting go which the ripening of practice had facilitated. Obviously not, as it led to utter futility. However, that's not what it says on your meditation brochure. Right here it says "Enlightenment facilitated by the ripening of practice." Sounds like BS to me. You're assuming that Adya has the final authorititive word on this because he's a guru? |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Adya
Sept 1, 2019 5:32:04 GMT
Post by Enigma on Sept 1, 2019 5:32:04 GMT
Nor is training for the 100 metre sprint a cause of getting a gold medal, but on the other hand you're unlikely to get that medal if you don't train and you'll probably need a coach as well. You're equating meditation practice with training for skill acquisition. SR is not an acquired skill....not an accomplishment, acquisition at all. SR does not involve learning, training or acquiring new knowledge. Rather, it's an 'unlearning'...an 'un knowing' of stuff that was previously known for certain and never questioned. Yer on a roll!  |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Sept 1, 2019 6:16:55 GMT
You're equating meditation practice with training for skill acquisition. SR is not an acquired skill....not an accomplishment, acquisition at all. SR does not involve learning, training or acquiring new knowledge. Rather, it's an 'unlearning'...an 'un knowing' of stuff that was previously known for certain and never questioned. I didn't say SR is a skill or accomplishment. But meditation practice is. It is the skill of discrimination between unchanging awareness and changing phenomena. Only grace can "cause" SR after sufficient ripening of the individual soul or jiva. Then that state beyond limitation is also beyond learning or unlearning. The stuff that was previously known remains as it is. There is only a shift of perspective which reveals you are unlimited infinite awareness. Experience continues as before complete with ego which can experience the bliss of Being in time. Grace is a nonsense. It's a word peeps use when they finally notice none of their practices are causing enlightenment, and God has to take over. It's harder to notice the practices never caused anything and God was always in charge. You must have sincerity and devotion, and they are uncaused. Christians would call it faith. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 6:24:19 GMT
I didn't say SR is a skill or accomplishment. But meditation practice is. It is the skill of discrimination between unchanging awareness and changing phenomena. Only grace can "cause" SR after sufficient ripening of the individual soul or jiva. Then that state beyond limitation is also beyond learning or unlearning. The stuff that was previously known remains as it is. There is only a shift of perspective which reveals you are unlimited infinite awareness. Experience continues as before complete with ego which can experience the bliss of Being in time. Grace is a nonsense. It's a word peeps use when they finally notice none of their practices are causing enlightenment, and God has to take over. It's harder to notice the practices never caused anything and God was always in charge. You must have sincerity and devotion, and they are uncaused. Christians would call it faith. Grace us just a word to describe what is indescribable and unexplainable. That doesn't invalidate that fact that practice contributes to spiritual ripening and maturity. Of course sincerity and devotion are required. How could one practice without them? I think this is obvious! And if sincerity and devotion are uncaused then so is the intention to practice. Faith is at the very core of Vedantic teaching. Nisargadatta had it by the bucket load. |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Adya
Sept 1, 2019 6:35:11 GMT
Post by Enigma on Sept 1, 2019 6:35:11 GMT
Auspicious correlate indeed! Auspicious nonsense is what it is which doesn't have any basis in reality. All the devotion in the world to make a million dollars will mean nothing if you don't do any work to earn it. You and figs seem to be in deep denial and I really don't understand why. The common sense I speak is contrary to your agenda, whatever that is. It's a mystery although it's an illustration of how dangerous nonduality as a philosophy can be to the mind when it doesn't go hand in hand with direct experience through practice. Again, you're getting lost in context. What was it last time, the 100 yard dash? You don't have to work for it or train for it. It's not a race or a competition. There's no spiritual degree you need to enter the spiritual work force. What you're looking for was always right here, 'closer than you breath', as they say. Willingness is the willingness to die to your Self. Sincerity is the purity of heart you need to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Devotion is the key to the gateless gate. Nothing more is needed, nothing less will do. |
|
The complete and utter failure to practice his way to freedom. But look at the devotion. The only thing he ever needed on the pathless path leading to the gateless gate. 
