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Post by Figgles on Aug 12, 2022 1:06:36 GMT
You don't think there can be different meanings, related to language, culture...times.... of what it means to 'be God's son'? For one, there's the literal interpretation of that....as in, I am the actual offspring of God...God is a dude....I am a dude...and then there are more metaphorical interpretations that are not at all literal. To be fair Gopal, i know very little about the bible and Christian scriptures...that kind of thing, so beyond talking about it all in a general way, going with what seems to me to be rather obvious, that there's bound to be discrepancies in how the words and meanings were interpreted and passed on, based on the fact of translation, culture and time. Beyond that, when it comes to bible discussion/debate, I'd be talkin' outta my hat.  I can see you've delved quite deeply into it all on the other hand so in that sense, you have the advantage. All right Did the ola reader tell you you'd slowly start to lose your interest in conversation? |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Aug 12, 2022 15:46:39 GMT
Thanks again Andrew. You've put that even better and more succinctly than I could. I appreciate now only your changing view of me and your understanding, but the fact that you're standing up to Reefs to express it. Yeah, Truth matters to me....I've always been a stickler for self-honesty/integrity. I see deep importance in airing issues....in illuminating those places where ego tries to hide and it's because I also apply this to myself that I so strongly relish 'being challenged,' even more than I do being the challenger. I've raised my kids with that value of 'personal integrity/self-honesty ' above all else. We don't let stuff go....we talk about it ALL...even the really difficult stuff...even if it means debate/civil argument. I would say our home/family has been uncommonly harmonious, and we have had ongoing, deep, caring, loving relationships that I hear from many is not the norm, not 'in spite of,' my refusal as a parent/spouse, to let issues go, my refusal to ignore discussion that might be deemed 'negative' or 'rocking the boat,' but because of it..If an issue arises...lets' hash it out! Calmy..and with civility....and in that, or perhaps it was their intrinsic nature's to begin with, My kids know how to assert themselves when they need to...to express disagreement without anger...to debate civilly and to hold their ground where it's important to them to do so, regardless of who it is that is trying to assert authority over them. To see what is actually so...to be aware of mind's shenanigans and what is so on a deeper level...Truth.....to be crystal clear on what do I know for certain....to know what my deepest values are and to adhere to them....to have and demonstrate personal integrity to those values....to stand up against dishonesty and unfairness where i see it...to call out tyranny, even when it's not entirely comfy to do so, simply because it's the right thing to do....all of that, to me is the fundamentals of what it means to live a good life. I think in that sense of what we value, we are quite similar. yeah, nice words, I get what you are saying totally. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 12, 2022 18:38:15 GMT
Thanks again Andrew. You've put that even better and more succinctly than I could. I appreciate now only your changing view of me and your understanding, but the fact that you're standing up to Reefs to express it. Yeah, Truth matters to me....I've always been a stickler for self-honesty/integrity. I see deep importance in airing issues....in illuminating those places where ego tries to hide and it's because I also apply this to myself that I so strongly relish 'being challenged,' even more than I do being the challenger. I've raised my kids with that value of 'personal integrity/self-honesty ' above all else. We don't let stuff go....we talk about it ALL...even the really difficult stuff...even if it means debate/civil argument. I would say our home/family has been uncommonly harmonious, and we have had ongoing, deep, caring, loving relationships that I hear from many is not the norm, not 'in spite of,' my refusal as a parent/spouse, to let issues go, my refusal to ignore discussion that might be deemed 'negative' or 'rocking the boat,' but because of it..If an issue arises...lets' hash it out! Calmy..and with civility....and in that, or perhaps it was their intrinsic nature's to begin with, My kids know how to assert themselves when they need to...to express disagreement without anger...to debate civilly and to hold their ground where it's important to them to do so, regardless of who it is that is trying to assert authority over them. To see what is actually so...to be aware of mind's shenanigans and what is so on a deeper level...Truth.....to be crystal clear on what do I know for certain....to know what my deepest values are and to adhere to them....to have and demonstrate personal integrity to those values....to stand up against dishonesty and unfairness where i see it...to call out tyranny, even when it's not entirely comfy to do so, simply because it's the right thing to do....all of that, to me is the fundamentals of what it means to live a good life. I think in that sense of what we value, we are quite similar. yeah, nice words, I get what you are saying totally. I know you do! And the fact that that knowing and the sense of communion I am feeling right now in the sense of sharing common views and being deeply understood by another is relative, 'in the dream/appearance only,' in no way mitigates the joy, beauty and appreciation of it.   Gratitude is an 'in the dream,' thing, but that doesn't make it 'not important/meaningless.' Importance and meaning are also 'in the dream.' The dream is life... I think if that could be grasped, this whole 'not knowing' wedge might be dissolved; Appearance only is NOT a denigration of perceivables...it's a clarification...an illumination that actually renders the fact of experience, even more miraculous...more awe-inspiring....more appreciated. But again...thank you. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 12, 2022 21:23:36 GMT
Sure, that's one particular focus/practice, but really, opinions aren't the enemy so long as they're seen as opinions only and not taken to be something more...something that is actual/Truth.
So long as there's a me character in the mix, there's going to be personal preferences....likes/dislikes, thus, personal opinions. None of that needs to be done away with...the key is; Seeing it all for what it is...which necessary equals; seeing what isn't!
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Aug 12, 2022 22:12:16 GMT
yeah, nice words, I get what you are saying totally. I know you do! And the fact that that knowing and the sense of communion I am feeling right now in the sense of sharing common views and being deeply understood by another is relative, 'in the dream/appearance only,' in no way mitigates the joy, beauty and appreciation of it. Gratitude is an 'in the dream,' thing, but that doesn't make it 'not important/meaningless.' Importance and meaning are also 'in the dream.' The dream is life... I think if that could be grasped, this whole 'not knowing' wedge might be dissolved; Appearance only is NOT a denigration of perceivables...it's a clarification...an illumination that actually renders the fact of experience, even more miraculous...more awe-inspiring....more appreciated. But again...thank you. Yes, and sometimes the dream feels entirely real and appearances feel real but once Truth is seen it’s only a hairsbreath away and suffering can not capture as it once did. |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 13, 2022 14:55:04 GMT
Did the ola reader tell you you'd slowly start to lose your interest in conversation? ha ha nope
But nowadays I am well aware of how I create the argument from my subconscious level. Unconscious dynamic becomes conscious now.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 13, 2022 18:48:26 GMT
Did the ola reader tell you you'd slowly start to lose your interest in conversation? ha ha nope But nowadays I am well aware of how I create the argument from my subconscious level. Unconscious dynamic becomes conscious now.
So would you say then that you are consciously choosing to censor yourself...as in, choosing NOT to engage argument even if there is a pull to do so? Or, is it just that the very interest to engage is just no longer arising? |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 14, 2022 4:07:19 GMT
ha ha nope But nowadays I am well aware of how I create the argument from my subconscious level. Unconscious dynamic becomes conscious now.
So would you say then that you are consciously choosing to censor yourself...as in, choosing NOT to engage argument even if there is a pull to do so? Or, is it just that the very interest to engage is just no longer arising? No,no. That's clearly not so. If there is a pull, then I cant avoid. When I do some internal activity, it pulls the argument. When I stop, interest fade away. But I don't have the control in the argument. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 22, 2022 1:35:05 GMT
Are YOU present to how you've just invited him to offer an answer and that therefore, you yourself are perpetuating what you call "another endless mind-spin"?
And are you aware of the 'damned if he does answer/damned if doesn't,' aspect (double-bind nature) of that question?
Always so damned manipulative....why?
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Post by Figgles on Sept 9, 2022 17:54:22 GMT
If you're gonna throw out accusations of someone chasing you around with a singular, disingenuous intent of simply making you wrong, don't be surprised if the one you are accusing, digs back into the convo. This perfectly demonstrates the issue with Reefs ban against what he arbitrarily denotes as "crusading." It's always in the eye of the beholder. A spiritual forum that allows civil debate is going to at times have the kind of dynamic that the convo between you and Muttley has demonstrated. Because you are not liking the sense of being challenged by Muttley, you have labelled his ongoing challenges/responses to you as "chasing." That's a label you arrived at that has your own mental/emotional angst behind it, and it's no more an accurate depiction of what's actually going on that it would be to say he's "stalking" you.....or "crusading" against you....what's really happening is, he's responding to your posts, on a forum that invites responses to posts, in a direct and challenging manner...and, you don't like that. Period. & Yeah, there's a good reason I posted this in this "conscious awareness of mind's machinations," thread.  |
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I can see you've delved quite deeply into it all on the other hand so in that sense, you have the advantage. 
Gratitude is an 'in the dream,' thing, but that doesn't make it 'not important/meaningless.' Importance and meaning are also 'in the dream.' The dream is life...