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Post by Figgles on Aug 10, 2022 17:16:31 GMT
You've put that perfectly Andrew, thank you.  I often hear from folks who read along and are appreciative. They too get it; The seemingly personal views of Reefs/ZD are representative of a juncture of sorts along the path (of sorts...lol) where those who have indeed had glimmers and have a strong conceptual grasp of Nonduality, get hung-up, mistaking what is merely an in the dream, experiential 'stretching/expansion of' mind, with actual transcendence of mind....transcendence of the story/dream. My strong focus/interest on this has my own experience of 'creating and maintaining bridges from within the dream to beyond,' at it's helm. There was a strong conceptual grasp and glimmers that went in and out for awhile, but it was that insistence of mind that there is Truth to be found within the dream that acted as a 'tether.' It's the very mistaking of something that is a facet of the dream, for Truth, that is maintaining the immersion within the dream. There's a myriad of folks who read along here and never participate...they reside all over the world if the IP's are any indicator. A few people I talk to off forum who are particularly appreciative, as like me, they had also, specifically been holding to something that appears and taking it to be something more....and not that words alone can cause or point awareness beyond that mired position, but in a moment of true sincerity/unbeguiled honesty, a pointer from within the dream to beyond, just might correlate with the turning point. (I know...that almost sounds like a bridge!...ultimately, there ARE none.)  |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 10, 2022 17:29:30 GMT
Right...It's certainly not terribly important to me whether I am allowed back or not...I have this venue to express whatever I want to say and do so freely. "Space" is an issue on an online discussion forum?  If you believe my intent is entirely to seek revenge on Reefs/ZD for banning me, then I get how you might see it that way. I do indeed have a bit of fun poking at them, I full out admit that....but the bulk of my focus here really is Truth. And like it or not, I have received feedback of the value in offering actual examples (via re-posting posts) of what it looks like to fail to see the entirety of perceivables as empty...and to properly and clearly denote what is a perceivable from what is not.....what it looks like for mind to wedge it's way back into the forefront when it may have temporarily taken a back-seat. You are obviously looking at my actions here as a vendetta of sorts and I say that has far more to do with you than it does me. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 10, 2022 18:40:29 GMT
Yes, well said. My interest in Truth...in pointing out unseen machinations of mind, in pointing away from what I see to be delusion (particularly where there is a strong conceptual understanding.....glimmers of Truth....back and forthing of being awake/asleep) IS undoubtedly "intense." I would say in terms of my deepest values, there is nothing more important as I see it than awakening/SR, or in the absence of that, self-awareness, (of the sort that you clearly have and demonstrated above there in your admitting to intensity at times. ) Hell yeah!  But in all seriousness, you are right that in the big pic, I don't see anyone on these forums as the 'enemy,' anything but. Not sure about you but folks in my day to day life who have even a modicum of interest in talking about 'what is Truth...what do I know for absolute certain....who/what am I'......few and far between. By virtue of the fact that we're all interested in such talk, we are 'kindred souls' in a very deep way. This is why it's ultimately quite sad that the forums are divided as they are. I know E expressed this several times as well, no anger on his part, just that sense of sadness that "a family" of sorts had been needlessly divided. (So very much like what we are seeing in the world right now, hey?) The shutting down and banning of posters for civilly, (albeit perhaps with intensity/tenacity) challenging the viewpoints of other posters, really is akin to what's happening in the world right now....censoring and banning dissenting viewpoints that challenge status quo views, simply because the status quo views are the those of the reigning power. I find it incredible that Reefs seemingly is unaware that in terms of forum food-fights of the past, he was not only an instigator, but one of the nastiest food hurlers in the fights. The way he went after you in particular, for example, outright taunting and belittling, name-calling,....shenanigans like his; "hiatus.....hiatus...hiatus" complete with dancing bunnies, all that crap, and yet just today as he speaks of those who were past transgressors now having improved, he fails to even mention his own past involvement/present improvement.......well, lets just say there is a reason I am addressing this issue in this thread entitled "conscious awareness of mind's machinations,"....does not seem there is any self-awareness there on Reefs part at all. Then again, might just be denial....he sees it, but is gonna stfu about it. That's a lack of sincerity/honesty/integrity, if that's the case. Is that a crime that makes Reefs a horrific, unlovable person who must be made to pay the piper? Not at all. I'd say an absence of 'conscious awareness of mind's machinations,' is it's own instant 'Karma/punishment.' Becoming aware of something going on in mind that i was not previously aware of, due to someone pointing it out to me, may not at the time be welcomed with open arms, but once it's seen for what it is, how could there be anything but gratitude there? |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 10, 2022 19:00:00 GMT
It can also work the other way; Someone who challenges you, whom you therefore dislike and hold disdain for, is really just a target of YOUR spiritual ego at work. There are multitudes of so called 'sages' who with what might be deemed as an 'intense focus,' wrote about, argued about, gave sermons about "Truth." Is that because they were still seeking and just didn't realize it? It's an interesting convo for sure. & Do you regard the Zen master who whacks the student for a deluded moment as having a vendetta against the student? How would you know the difference between a thwack that was meant to illuminate vs. one that had personal vindictiveness behind it? (and yes, I am well prepared now for you to focus on the lunacy of "figgles" equating herself with a zen master...go for it!...have fun.) Thank you. And yes, I do recognize it as such....pointers are often in fact a form of poetry...prose.... Right. But as someone who expresses himself quite well at most times, poetically and otherwise, and seems to enjoy doing so, (otherwise, whatcha doing on ST and other forums?) I still don't get why you close down and refuse to engage/share when I ask you to talk about how and what it is I am misinterpreting. Can you see at all why I say there is a parallel between what's happening politically/scientifically the world over and what's happening on these forums? Anyone who cares about knowing the Truth/truth will welcome challenge.....any idea/expressed viewpoint worth it's salt can not only withstand intense scrutiny and challenge, but without that, there is simply no way to know if there's salt there or not. |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 11, 2022 13:44:07 GMT
It may seem that way, but due to the nature of Truth-talk convos, I think it's important to always keep that possibility in mind. We are after all coming up with and using conceptual terms to talk about that which is ultimately not a concept! And when it comes to interpreting the bible/scripts that were written so long ago and that have passed through a myriad of translations, both of the language variety and personal interpretations, I think it's fair to say that we can actually "expect" there to be some language issues. Read here.
Jesus did not consider himself to be an enlightened man, he considered himself to be a God's son and he believed that Father was doing the miracle through him. He considered himself to be a random. That's all he believed. He did not believe that he was an enlightened man. But the question is, what did Jesus mean by this. But the question is, what did Jesus mean by this. Right, good example of potential 'language and culture of the times'. In light of realization, the words and interpretations take on a whole new 'understanding' and, as such, it may not be necessary to go out and kill, proselytize, or demonize. But, we know where that likely goes. He says here language and culture of the times, Full Bible is very clear that he is the son of God. What does language has anything to do? Tell me. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2022 16:29:22 GMT
It may seem that way, but due to the nature of Truth-talk convos, I think it's important to always keep that possibility in mind. We are after all coming up with and using conceptual terms to talk about that which is ultimately not a concept! And when it comes to interpreting the bible/scripts that were written so long ago and that have passed through a myriad of translations, both of the language variety and personal interpretations, I think it's fair to say that we can actually "expect" there to be some language issues. Read here.
But the question is, what did Jesus mean by this. Right, good example of potential 'language and culture of the times'. In light of realization, the words and interpretations take on a whole new 'understanding' and, as such, it may not be necessary to go out and kill, proselytize, or demonize. But, we know where that likely goes. He says here language and culture of the times, Full Bible is very clear that he is the son of God. What does language has anything to do? Tell me. You don't think there can be different meanings, related to language, culture...times.... of what it means to 'be God's son'? For one, there's the literal interpretation of that....as in, I am the actual offspring of God...God is a dude....I am a dude...and then there are more metaphorical interpretations that are not at all literal. To be fair Gopal, i know very little about the bible and Christian scriptures...that kind of thing, so beyond talking about it all in a general way, going with what seems to me to be rather obvious, that there's bound to be discrepancies in how the words and meanings were interpreted and passed on, based on the fact of translation, culture and time. Beyond that, when it comes to bible discussion/debate, I'd be talkin' outta my hat. I can see you've delved quite deeply into it all on the other hand so in that sense, you have the advantage. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2022 17:03:00 GMT
Sree? who are you and how did you stumble upon ST? You writing is incredible....as are your observances....you don't miss much, it seems. I've always loved cynical humor...the ability to see and acknowledge the worst of human nature and make fun of it simultaneously. Carry on sir. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2022 17:28:44 GMT
Thanks again Andrew. You've put that even better and more succinctly than I could. I appreciate now only your changing view of me and your understanding, but the fact that you're standing up to Reefs to express it.
Yeah, Truth matters to me....I've always been a stickler for self-honesty/integrity. I see deep importance in airing issues....in illuminating those places where ego tries to hide and it's because I also apply this to myself that I so strongly relish 'being challenged,' even more than I do being the challenger.
I've raised my kids with that value of 'personal integrity/self-honesty ' above all else. We don't let stuff go....we talk about it ALL...even the really difficult stuff...even if it means debate/civil argument.
I would say our home/family has been uncommonly harmonious, and we have had ongoing, deep, caring, loving relationships that I hear from many is not the norm, not 'in spite of,' my refusal as a parent/spouse, to let issues go, my refusal to ignore discussion that might be deemed 'negative' or 'rocking the boat,' but because of it..If an issue arises...lets' hash it out! Calmy..and with civility....and in that, or perhaps it was their intrinsic nature's to begin with, My kids know how to assert themselves when they need to...to express disagreement without anger...to debate civilly and to hold their ground where it's important to them to do so, regardless of who it is that is trying to assert authority over them.
To see what is actually so...to be aware of mind's shenanigans and what is so on a deeper level...Truth.....to be crystal clear on what do I know for certain....to know what my deepest values are and to adhere to them....to have and demonstrate personal integrity to those values....to stand up against dishonesty and unfairness where i see it...to call out tyranny, even when it's not entirely comfy to do so, simply because it's the right thing to do....all of that, to me is the fundamentals of what it means to live a good life.
I think in that sense of what we value, we are quite similar.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 11, 2022 18:07:33 GMT
 I swear on my mother's, father's and two brother's graves, that is NOT the case. I'm well aware that if I really wanted to get into ST, there ARE ways....I honestly don't care that much. I think the whole sneakiness of changing names, trying to surf by on the same discussion forum under a new identity, to be somewhat dishonest and/or cowardly, so you can count me out when it comes to that kind of behavior. What i can share is that peabee's IP appears to be a proxy server...which means he/she is trying to fly under the radar for some reason....clearly doesn't want me or anyone else to figure out identity. Interestingly enough, years ago when (I think it was Peter) looked into Reefs IP, it too appeared to be a proxy server he/she was using...it prevents anyone from knowing what part of the world you reside in. A little birdie told me that Reefs resides in the UK.  Has travelled a fair bit though.
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Post by Gopal on Aug 12, 2022 0:52:17 GMT
Read here.
He says here language and culture of the times, Full Bible is very clear that he is the son of God. What does language has anything to do? Tell me. You don't think there can be different meanings, related to language, culture...times.... of what it means to 'be God's son'? For one, there's the literal interpretation of that....as in, I am the actual offspring of God...God is a dude....I am a dude...and then there are more metaphorical interpretations that are not at all literal. To be fair Gopal, i know very little about the bible and Christian scriptures...that kind of thing, so beyond talking about it all in a general way, going with what seems to me to be rather obvious, that there's bound to be discrepancies in how the words and meanings were interpreted and passed on, based on the fact of translation, culture and time. Beyond that, when it comes to bible discussion/debate, I'd be talkin' outta my hat. I can see you've delved quite deeply into it all on the other hand so in that sense, you have the advantage. All right |
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Has travelled a fair bit though.