Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Sept 21, 2018 23:21:33 GMT
I've said my bit, and I have nothing more for you. You're afraid to keep going. That fear needs to be looked at. I don't think you should look at your fear, I just don't think you are ready. |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 21, 2018 23:30:04 GMT
You're afraid to keep going. That fear needs to be looked at. I don't think you should look at your fear, I just don't think you are ready. What is it you think I'm fearful of? I promise you, In terms of delving into any idea I present here, I won't balk at being asked to look deeper and explain what I see. I relish any and all opportunity to look within with sincerity. It's why I so enjoy civil debate on this spiritual forums. I enjoy both challenging and being challenged. I've seen first hand the fruits of the latter. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Sept 21, 2018 23:38:59 GMT
I don't think you should look at your fear, I just don't think you are ready. What is it you think I'm fearful of? I promise you, In terms of delving into any idea I present here, I won't balk at being asked to look deeper and explain what I see. I relish any and all opportunity to look within with sincerity. It's why I so enjoy civil debate on this spiritual forums. I enjoy both challenging and being challenged. I've seen first hand the fruits of the latter. I don't consider it useful to present my ideas about what you are scared of right now, not least because I don't believe you will see it. Fear is usually surprising, it catches us off guard. So, if and when there is a time you are scared, that's the time to look at it. |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 21, 2018 23:48:18 GMT
What is it you think I'm fearful of? I promise you, In terms of delving into any idea I present here, I won't balk at being asked to look deeper and explain what I see. I relish any and all opportunity to look within with sincerity. It's why I so enjoy civil debate on this spiritual forums. I enjoy both challenging and being challenged. I've seen first hand the fruits of the latter. I don't consider it useful to present my ideas about what you are scared of right now, not least because I don't believe you will see it. Fear is usually surprising, it catches us off guard. So, if and when there is a time you are scared, that's the time to look at it. If/when fear arises, the first impetus that arises alongside that is to take an honest look at what's happening. Even as a kid, I never shied away from that. In fact, I would say the arising of fear (in the absence of an obvious, immediate physical threat) is always seen as an invitation/opportunity. If you truly are seeing unconscious fear in something I've said here, please don't hesitate to Bring it on. You seem to have an odd sense where others are concerned of needing to behave in ways that protect them, but I say that's just your own fear of being challenged in play. You put on masks around others for fear that you will lose control of how things unfold...when really, you never had control anyway. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Sept 21, 2018 23:56:12 GMT
I don't consider it useful to present my ideas about what you are scared of right now, not least because I don't believe you will see it. Fear is usually surprising, it catches us off guard. So, if and when there is a time you are scared, that's the time to look at it. If/when fear arises, the first impetus that arises alongside that is to take an honest look at what's happening. Even as a kid, I never shied away from that. In fact, I would say the arising of fear (in the absence of an obvious, immediate physical threat) is always seen as an invitation/opportunity. If you truly are seeing unconscious fear in something I've said here, please don't hesitate to Bring it on. You seem to have an odd sense where others are concerned of needing to behave in ways that protect them, but I say that's just your own fear of being challenged in play. You put on masks around others for fear that you will lose control of how things unfold...when really, you never had control anyway. I'm serious when I say that I can't see the point in talking to you/showing you what I see. I contemplated for a very brief second trying to talk about it, but I know full well that it's futile. The most I can offer is some measure of intellectual debate on the other thread, but even that is close to running its course again for now I think. |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 22, 2018 0:14:30 GMT
If/when fear arises, the first impetus that arises alongside that is to take an honest look at what's happening. Even as a kid, I never shied away from that. In fact, I would say the arising of fear (in the absence of an obvious, immediate physical threat) is always seen as an invitation/opportunity. If you truly are seeing unconscious fear in something I've said here, please don't hesitate to Bring it on. You seem to have an odd sense where others are concerned of needing to behave in ways that protect them, but I say that's just your own fear of being challenged in play. You put on masks around others for fear that you will lose control of how things unfold...when really, you never had control anyway. I'm serious when I say that I can't see the point in talking to you/showing you what I see. I contemplated for a very brief second trying to talk about it, but I know full well that it's futile. The most I can offer is some measure of intellectual debate on the other thread, but even that is close to running its course again for now I think. Lol......yes, we all know Andrew how quickly you back down from arguments when the other demonstrates conviction of their viewpoint.  There's pages and pages of evidence that prove 'futility' in terms of having the other see things your way, was never an issue before. Again, you're being dishonest...lacking in integrity. You're scared to engage me because I'm challenging those spots you don't want to look at. |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Sept 22, 2018 0:20:32 GMT
There's been some talk on ST about the necessity for "camouflage." Andrew described it this way: Not only is this seeming need to 'put on an act' of sorts not necessary, but if it's present, it's a clear indicator of the presence of fear. The following Adya quote seems to speak directly to Andrew's above: "Most human beings actually have an imprinting--not only in their minds, but in their bodies and their emotions--that if they are honest, if they are real, something bad is going to happen. Somebody is not going to like it. They fear they won't be able to control their environment if they tell the truth." He really nails it with his reference to 'control.' And, furthermore, The fear of not being able to control your environment is inextricably tied to the very idea that you 'can' control things. Andrew says it above so clearly; "I tend not to look people in the eye too much because I don't want to intimidate them." What he's really saying there is that he fears the responses of others, and thus, feels the need to try to control his interactions with them, but of course, underlying all of that is his mistaken belief that he as a person, actually can control any of that. Andrew, I'd love to talk about this with you if you're up for it.  I'd be interested in why he thinks he can intimidate strangers with a look.  |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 22, 2018 1:09:03 GMT
There's been some talk on ST about the necessity for "camouflage." Andrew described it this way: Not only is this seeming need to 'put on an act' of sorts not necessary, but if it's present, it's a clear indicator of the presence of fear. The following Adya quote seems to speak directly to Andrew's above: "Most human beings actually have an imprinting--not only in their minds, but in their bodies and their emotions--that if they are honest, if they are real, something bad is going to happen. Somebody is not going to like it. They fear they won't be able to control their environment if they tell the truth." He really nails it with his reference to 'control.' And, furthermore, The fear of not being able to control your environment is inextricably tied to the very idea that you 'can' control things. Andrew says it above so clearly; "I tend not to look people in the eye too much because I don't want to intimidate them." What he's really saying there is that he fears the responses of others, and thus, feels the need to try to control his interactions with them, but of course, underlying all of that is his mistaken belief that he as a person, actually can control any of that. Andrew, I'd love to talk about this with you if you're up for it. I'd be interested in why he thinks he can intimidate strangers with a look. yeah...the very idea that making direct eye contact is a bad thing, is counter-intuitive. 'Let's pretend that we're all caught up in our own inner shit, averted eyes, downcast focus, just to make the other guy feel better'...said no Guru, ever.  Or...perhaps....  ?   |
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Post by Figgles on Sept 22, 2018 3:56:50 GMT
What is it you think I'm fearful of? I promise you, In terms of delving into any idea I present here, I won't balk at being asked to look deeper and explain what I see. I relish any and all opportunity to look within with sincerity. It's why I so enjoy civil debate on this spiritual forums. I enjoy both challenging and being challenged. I've seen first hand the fruits of the latter. I don't consider it useful to present my ideas about what you are scared of right now, not least because I don't believe you will see it. Fear is usually surprising, it catches us off guard. So, if and when there is a time you are scared, that's the time to look at it. Yes. For you, one of those opportune moments would be when you are feeling the need to don your camouflage. It's right then and there that if you look within, at what's behind that urge to put on a mask, you just might see it. & it's interesting Andrew...cause for one who says he's not interested in engaging, when I speak to you on this forum, regardless of the fact that you might be refraining from engaging me back, you are here, as a non logged in, 'guest' almost every time I am here. So,while you are professing to not be interested, your actual behavior says otherwise. You are obviously very interested in what I have to say to you, but something (fear/ego methinks) is standing in the way of you responding in a way that would demand self inquiry. From what you say, You are very interested in controlling your behaviors, but have you noticed that you don't actually have control? You would like to just be able to turn away from this forum, from figgles and her pointy little fingers, but evidently, you cannot stay away. Again, that could serve as an important point of inquiry if you were so inclined. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Sept 22, 2018 7:47:03 GMT
I'm serious when I say that I can't see the point in talking to you/showing you what I see. I contemplated for a very brief second trying to talk about it, but I know full well that it's futile. The most I can offer is some measure of intellectual debate on the other thread, but even that is close to running its course again for now I think. Lol......yes, we all know Andrew how quickly you back down from arguments when the other demonstrates conviction of their viewpoint. There's pages and pages of evidence that prove 'futility' in terms of having the other see things your way, was never an issue before. Again, you're being dishonest...lacking in integrity. You're scared to engage me because I'm challenging those spots you don't want to look at. In your case, it took me a long time to come to the point where I could see you definitely weren't ready to abandon the solipsism. |
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There's pages and pages of evidence that prove 'futility' in terms of having the other see things your way, was never an issue before. 
? 