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Post by Figgles on Dec 24, 2018 3:35:28 GMT
Wow...that was 2013. Quite a divergence from where you now stand. 'Unicorn land' indeed. I occurs to me that Reefs underwent the same kind of change you did, and at about the same time I think, except in reverse. You woke up and he fell asleep. Hmmmmmm. I know, right???
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by Enigma on Dec 24, 2018 23:34:32 GMT
I occurs to me that Reefs underwent the same kind of change you did, and at about the same time I think, except in reverse. You woke up and he fell asleep. Hmmmmmm. I know, right??? I'm thinkin interdimensional transmutation or some such.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 30, 2018 17:11:27 GMT
Yes! Regardless of how expansive or unifying or awe inspiring "an experience" may be, by virtue of being 'experience,' it fails to capture the actuality. If it's an experience (of any kind) plain and simply is 'cannot' fully capture what you are references above as 'absolute wholeness.'
This is the why an experience of even the deepest, most pure "Kensho/Cosmic Consciousness," while often, important and undeniably 'impactful' upon future experience, cannot itself be called "Truth."
The seeing that the actuality defies capture by experience, by words, by feelings, IS Truth. It's part and parcel of realizing there is no separation....no separate volitional person...and that all experience arises within that which I really am.....in short, it fits the bill for what is referenced by the term 'transcendent realization,' because, It's a non-conceptual seeing of what is not.
This takes us back to the whole issue of whether or not one comes away from a CC with certain knowing that 'it's all alive, conscious, experiencing, perceiving.' Even the most direct of experiences where this knowledge is seemingly apprehended, is by virtue of all I say above, going to fall short of "Truth."
One may come away from a CC with an actual 'realization' that the actuality cannot be captured, or that it is not what I thought it was....but that's a whole different thing than coming away knowing about specific qualities/properties/attributes.
It's funny Andrew, 'cause the realization that anything experienced is not 'it', crystalized for me in a very similar dream to the one you describe above (prior to that, I'd had many CC experiences where I experienced similar)...I woke with tears streaming down my face too, absolute 'alight' with a tangible sense of being loved and being love itself, however, the most pertinent seeing of all was that as awesome as that all was, it didn't even begin to touch the actuality.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 30, 2018 20:30:03 GMT
Andrew: Just to summarize what I'm saying above. I'd say you very much did have a "CC" experience in the dream you describe. But even in your own words, the content of that CC (experience of God's Love) fell short of the actuality/Truth.
The content of the CC was beautiful, awe-inspiring, likely impactful to your ongoing experience beyond the dream, but the content itself was not 'a realization.' Rather, it sounds as though in tandem with the dream content, you clearly saw that Experience, regardless of how exquisite it may be, is not 'Truthy.' THAT bit where you saw that even the most exquisite of experiences is NOT "it", is transcendent seeing. The beautiful experience may have 'seemed' transcendent in that it surpassed any experience of love, bliss, beauty you've known to date, but even in that, it remained of the realm of the experiential.
In their CC's, Reefs and ZD obviously got fooled by the exquisiteness of the experience...they it took it for Truth...whereas clearly, from what you are saying, you saw through that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 20:21:45 GMT
Andrew: Just to summarize what I'm saying above. I'd say you very much did have a "CC" experience in the dream you describe. But even in your own words, the content of that CC (experience of God's Love) fell short of the actuality/Truth. The content of the CC was beautiful, awe-inspiring, likely impactful to your ongoing experience beyond the dream, but the content itself was not 'a realization.' Rather, it sounds as though in tandem with the dream content, you clearly saw that Experience, regardless of how exquisite it may be, is not 'Truthy.' THAT bit where you saw that even the most exquisite of experiences is NOT "it", is transcendent seeing. The beautiful experience may have 'seemed' transcendent in that it surpassed any experience of love, bliss, beauty you've known to date, but even in that, it remained of the realm of the experiential. In their CC's, Reefs and ZD obviously got fooled by the exquisiteness of the experience...they it took it for Truth...whereas clearly, from what you are saying, you saw through that. ZD has that experience and he misinterpreted as Realization but Reefs doesn't have any such experience he is lying just for the sake projecting himself like an enlightened person .
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Post by Figgles on Dec 31, 2018 21:32:58 GMT
Andrew: Just to summarize what I'm saying above. I'd say you very much did have a "CC" experience in the dream you describe. But even in your own words, the content of that CC (experience of God's Love) fell short of the actuality/Truth. The content of the CC was beautiful, awe-inspiring, likely impactful to your ongoing experience beyond the dream, but the content itself was not 'a realization.' Rather, it sounds as though in tandem with the dream content, you clearly saw that Experience, regardless of how exquisite it may be, is not 'Truthy.' THAT bit where you saw that even the most exquisite of experiences is NOT "it", is transcendent seeing. The beautiful experience may have 'seemed' transcendent in that it surpassed any experience of love, bliss, beauty you've known to date, but even in that, it remained of the realm of the experiential. In their CC's, Reefs and ZD obviously got fooled by the exquisiteness of the experience...they it took it for Truth...whereas clearly, from what you are saying, you saw through that. ZD has that experience and he misinterpreted as Realization but Reefs doesn't have any such experience he is lying just for the sake projecting himself like an enlightened person . Yeah, I have the same sense. He'd never mentioned his CC/Kensho experience until ZD started using his to explain his knowing beyond the appearance of things...and then suddenly Reefs was an expert on the almighty CC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 3:44:08 GMT
ZD has that experience and he misinterpreted as Realization but Reefs doesn't have any such experience he is lying just for the sake projecting himself like an enlightened person . Yeah, I have the same sense. He'd never mentioned his CC/Kensho experience until ZD started using his to explain his knowing beyond the appearance of things...and then suddenly Reefs was an expert on the almighty CC. Almighty CC , yes
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Post by Figgles on Jan 10, 2019 17:39:33 GMT
I get the sense from your recent postings Reefs, that you're constantly on a mad search these days for any teachings that support your assertion of certain knowing that "It's all alive, vibrant, experiencing, perceiving."
But all you're doing each time is re-affirming your conflation of Truth with Experience.
No doubt about it, Truth realization changes the way life is experienced. No one has said otherwise. Those changes themselves though, while indeed correlated with Truth realization are not themselves actual realizations.
The specific ways in which 'the world' changes post SR can be described in a myriad of ways...all of which will essentially be 'pointing' as words simply cannot/do not suffice. You've taken the experience of 'aliveness/increased vibrancy', and tried to paint it as Truth.
The experience of the world Watts is describing above (ordinary things coming 'alive') does not equal "It's all Alive" qualifying as a transcendent Truth.
There's a problem with an overt focus upon the experiential aspects of awakening, because seekers will read that and then naturally seek for a similar experience, when really, the shifts in experience that are described above and that occur following Truth realization, go hand in hand with the falling away/absence of previously held to ideas.
The actual Truth realization is the seeing through of those ideas. The way life is after, while important, of course, is not "Truth."
You are overly focused upon the resultant experiential shifts following Truth realization. It's important not to conflate the two.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 11, 2019 4:50:43 GMT
ZD, mystical, 'cosmic consciousness' experiences of that variety are actually far more common than you may think...all sorts of folks have reference for such an experience.....just search the webs....LSD experience forums alone, will be rife with experiential descriptions almost identical to Watts descriptions there....interesting enough, I shared one of my numerous CC experiences with you that was very similar to what Watts described, and you didn't even bother to respond to it.
It's important not to conflate CC experiences with actual awakening.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 11, 2019 19:34:40 GMT
By the same token, you can't have your 'aliveness' and eat it too, or in other words, the realization that words, concepts cannot and do not capture or convey the Truth, does not co-abide with an insistence upon a specific term that denotes a well-known, experiential quality/property. (as in; I know for certain that It's all alive).
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