Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 14:00:57 GMT
I think, with any debate, if it gets serious enough, there's always an underlying question of motivation. If you really don't have a chance at offering a genuinely alternative perspective, if someone is clearly closed off, then why go any further? Debates are fun! First, let's look at them from the audiences perspective, are they reasonable and open to changing their mind, or unreasonable and refuse to be swayed by any argument. But for the debaters themselves, oration is very important. You might win on facts but lose on delivery. And can they channel their emotions with favorable results, or are their ears and mouth blocked by them?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 14:20:10 GMT
I doubt he scared. Why would he be? He probably doesn't even care if a Blue Wave occurs next Tuesday. He'll take credit for any wins, and blame any loses on 'not embracing Trump enough' (or ignore any situations which can't be spun that way).And even if the Dems take Congress, its not like he has a legislative agenda which would then somehow be in jeopardy (except for more tax cuts, and the dissolution of regulations, for himself and his friends). And he also would likely enjoy having a new enemy to rail against as he gears up for 2020. But yeah, the poor Yemenis (and billions of other folks) are likely going to be shit out of luck for the foreseeable future. Nailed it! Advice for the run up to 2020. Do not follow Trump in to the gutter. Do not give him ammunition. Do your jobs, stand up for what's right, and DO NOT veer too far to the left. Don't even say the word "impeachment", and unless the Mueller report absolutely, unequivocally, demands such an action, just forget about it. Focus on voter registration, and adjust the party platform to be more inclusive.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 14:54:38 GMT
Fun Fact: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming only have ONE congressman (because apparently nobody wants to live there ) but each state gets TWO senators, and five of those states are almost blood red, so that's a persistent unfair electoral advantage!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 15:00:32 GMT
Fun Fact: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming only have ONE congressman (because apparently nobody wants to live there ) but each state gets TWO senators, and five of those states are almost blood red, so that's a persistent unfair electoral advantage! A modest proposal: Redirect any and all caravans that care to come to those states nobody else wants to live in, give them citizenship and a voter card, and let's make America great again!
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Nov 7, 2018 16:13:22 GMT
I dunno, there just something about openly Bragging, boasting, and then laughing about one's shitty treatment of another human being that imo, takes it all to a whole nother level of "asshole." yeah yeah .. more ad-hominem .. Yes. "Ad-hominem" indeed. Call me crazy, but I do think personal character matters very much, when the position one holds is of such importance.
|
|
muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
|
Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 17:01:26 GMT
Your grandparents were very smart to have left Poland when they did, and every American can trace the story of their ancestry to people seeking a better life (even Native Americans), and some, like yours (and at least some of mine), in very dramatic circumstances. I don't have a problem with immigrants either, but the reason I posed the scenario's of forcing employers to raise wages instead of importing downward wage pressure, and the plight of the dreamers, is to demonstrate that there are no simple, static solutions to some problems, and that no one side of the debate has a monopoly on sanity or virtue. Do you remember the Polish joke Ronald Reagan expressed while on the campaign trail in 1980, 50 years after my mother and her grandmother arrived here? He was a very, very stupid man. A lot like Trump. Hadn't heard of that, no. What was your parents take on Lech Wałęsa and Solidarity?
|
|
muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
|
Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 17:03:41 GMT
I think, with any debate, if it gets serious enough, there's always an underlying question of motivation. If you really don't have a chance at offering a genuinely alternative perspective, if someone is clearly closed off, then why go any further? Debates are fun! First, let's look at them from the audiences perspective, are they reasonable and open to changing their mind, or unreasonable and refuse to be swayed by any argument. But for the debaters themselves, oration is very important. You might win on facts but lose on delivery. And can they channel their emotions with favorable results, or are their ears and mouth blocked by them? C-SPAN airs these " Munk Debates" where they pose a thesis, have the audience vote on where they are, and vote on how willing they are to change their minds based on the debate, and then poll them again after.
|
|
muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
|
Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 17:06:40 GMT
yeah yeah .. more ad-hominem .. Yes. "Ad-hominem" indeed. Call me crazy, but I do think personal character matters very much, when the position one holds is of such importance. Fair enough. One of Bill's security detail wrote a book on how he used to procure women for him, so on one hand, there's the image of character pol's want to project, and then, on the other, there's who they really are. To re-iterate, I evaluate their character not based on the image they project, but by the results of their leadership.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Nov 7, 2018 17:26:02 GMT
Fair enough. One of Bill's security detail wrote a book on how he used to procure women for him, so on one hand, there's the image of character pol's want to project, and then, on the other, there's who they really are. I'll take the words out of the horses own mouth over the words of another who has an axe to grind, any day of the week. And If by 'procure' you mean simply arranging for consentual sexual liason, I don't even remotely see that to be in the same category as boasting, bragging and laughing about treating other humans like shit. In terms of 'results' though, you can't just cherry-pick the 'results' you like vs. the ones you don't. "results" includes the whole gamut...all of it...the good/bad/ugly....the fallout as well as the benefits. You cannot separate out the folks who feel disenfranchised by his mysogyny, bigotry, from those 'results,' nor can you separate out the other countries of the world whose opinions of the US as a whole have been affected by the nonsense they are witnessing taking place.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 17:55:34 GMT
Debates are fun! First, let's look at them from the audiences perspective, are they reasonable and open to changing their mind, or unreasonable and refuse to be swayed by any argument. But for the debaters themselves, oration is very important. You might win on facts but lose on delivery. And can they channel their emotions with favorable results, or are their ears and mouth blocked by them? C-SPAN airs these " Munk Debates" where they pose a thesis, have the audience vote on where they are, and vote on how willing they are to change their minds based on the debate, and then poll them again after. Ok, I found this funny, and maybe a lesson for us all I read your reply and considered just making a dull joke about C-span, but then followed the link and reconsidered that dullness of habit, and opened my mind to the premise that this was actually a pretty cool venture from the tv station. I had to sign up for an account to watch one of the debates, which I did, and clicked on the Andrew Sullivan/Newt debate, but then saw it was gonna be an almost two hour time investment, so I've put that off until time becomes less burdensome.
|
|