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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 15:10:33 GMT
Sorry, missed this bit. Your inference actually isn't fair...it involves a leap. What Trump demonstrated with the bus tape is an entirely different thing than an allegation of sexual misconduct. Straight from the horses mouth is different than an accusation/allegation. There's no need to even weigh the 'evidence' when someone is outright telling you, even boasting and laughing about, their own misconduct. Yes, I don't deny your point, but notice that now you've morphed to the idea of evidence from opinion and hearsay. The evidence as to the way Bill treated some women is voluminous, and some of the most damning of that evidence is corroborated by more than one source. He was impeached for lying after a stained blue dress turned up, plus a handful of Arkansas women had other stories to tell. He grabbed them by the pussy alright.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 15:33:12 GMT
Nice reading that this morning. jeez, another customer this morning (a friend also, and one who tried to get me to join his Moose lodge). We were talking about the economy and how vibrant it currently is, so he says "Vote R right down the line". I said "No, I dislike Trump. Besides he doesn't deserve much credit for the economy, thank Obama and the Federal Reserve for that. Political economic actions don't change conditions overnight, it takes time for those changes to manifest." "We could talk about this all day, but I got shit to do" he says.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 16:40:35 GMT
jeez, another customer this morning (a friend also, and one who tried to get me to join his Moose lodge). We were talking about the economy and how vibrant it currently is, so he says "Vote R right down the line". I said "No, I dislike Trump. Besides he doesn't deserve much credit for the economy, thank Obama and the Federal Reserve for that. Political economic actions don't change conditions overnight, it takes time for those changes to manifest." "We could talk about this all day, but I got shit to do" he says. OMG! My golf buds have been trying to get me to join the Elks and Moose Lodges here for almost 30 years. Like I'm somehow missing out on something really grand. He knows I like gambling, and the Moose Lodge has some gambling video games (the only game in town, round here). I went once to check it out, but it mostly looked like a place for old farts to go and drink and get away from their wives.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 5, 2018 21:04:18 GMT
Sorry, missed this bit. Your inference actually isn't fair...it involves a leap. What Trump demonstrated with the bus tape is an entirely different thing than an allegation of sexual misconduct. Straight from the horses mouth is different than an accusation/allegation. There's no need to even weigh the 'evidence' when someone is outright telling you, even boasting and laughing about, their own misconduct. Yes, I don't deny your point, but notice that now you've morphed to the idea of evidence from opinion and hearsay. The evidence as to the way Bill treated some women is voluminous, and some of the most damning of that evidence is corroborated by more than one source. I dunno, there just something about openly Bragging, boasting, and then laughing about one's shitty treatment of another human being that imo, takes it all to a whole nother level of "asshole."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 11:35:31 GMT
Just got home after voting. I had expected long lines, but only one other voter was there. (But it was only 10 minutes past when they opened at 6)
I think today could be a watershed moment in American history, either the bigotry and nonsense of Trumpism is rejected and repudiated, or continued political apathy validates it as a winning strategy.
If there is an overwhelming blue wave I think moderate Republicans will step back from the brink, if not, look out below..
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Post by Figgles on Nov 6, 2018 15:52:36 GMT
Just got home after voting. I had expected long lines, but only one other voter was there. (But it was only 10 minutes past when they opened at 6) I think today could be a watershed moment in American history, either the bigotry and nonsense of Trumpism is rejected and repudiated, or continued political apathy validates it as a winning strategy. If there is an overwhelming blue wave I think moderate Republicans will step back from the brink, if not, look out below.. Excellent summation. we are tentatively planning a celebration with my 83 yr. old father, who takes it all VERY seriously....so much so, that if the bigotry and nonsense of Trumpism IS validated, he will likely be having a coronary instead of drinking champagne.
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 7:15:13 GMT
I'm a life-long registered Democrat who voted for Bernie in the '16 presidential primary. You claimed the Democrats don't use the same tactics of Republicans of lying about the positions of their opponents, so I gave you an example of an issue where the Democrats did exactly that. You know the saying about politics and religion, yeah? I recently had two such experiences (one of which was a two-fer! ). A long time customer was in the other day for one of his monthly visits, and we've always had pleasant chats over the years, but not once have I ever broached either of those problematic subjects. This time however I asked him if planned on voting, and he said "hell yeah, I wish I could vote several times!", and I said "yeah, me too!". We talked a little while longer, but I couldn't tell which direction he was leaning so I said "well I'll be voting Democrat straight down the line". The look on his face said all that needed saying. He then offered a few Hannity inspired opinions about immigration, and I offered a few alternative facts on the subject, and well, he must have remembered something else he had to do, cuz he had to go. The other story involved my octogenarian aunt, who also must watch Hannity style entertainment, plus she's also an evangelical. Hmmm, more talk of immigration out of her. (wonder why that subject on so many minds? ) But she did offer "well, 80% of Christians back Trump so they should tell you something". I countered with, "actually I think it's 80% of evangelical Christians, which says something in itself." We bickered a while longer, but then she had to go herself, but on the way out the door she caught herself, and remembered the most important thing, "I love you" she said, which I countered with "I love you too". Nice story about your aunt, thanks, and sorry for the prickish tone in that last one. Any conceptual debate is always gonna' be about scoring points, but whenever that gets taken seriously (on any topic) it's the potential for a wake-up call. Politics, science, philosophy and religion all have hooks directly into peep sense of identity, which is why it can get volatile. The only person besides my wife I've ever discussed politics with on any serious level is my sister, and it's really easy to get her angry without even trying or meaning to. Sue and I love to get into these topics in detail and we often reach a point of diametric disagreement. I've had friends who were interested in the sport of politics -- I mean, it's great entertainment -- but I've always been careful never to push into disagreements too deeply 'cause I had to work with them.
I think, with any debate, if it gets serious enough, there's always an underlying question of motivation. If you really don't have a chance at offering a genuinely alternative perspective, if someone is clearly closed off, then why go any further?
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 7:26:33 GMT
Yes, I don't deny your point, but notice that now you've morphed to the idea of evidence from opinion and hearsay. The evidence as to the way Bill treated some women is voluminous, and some of the most damning of that evidence is corroborated by more than one source. He was impeached for lying after a stained blue dress turned up, plus a handful of Arkansas women had other stories to tell. He grabbed them by the pussy alright. well see now that's an interesting hook into what's at the root of all this hub-bub, which isn't about sex, at all. There's this constant battle between the Federal branches. What happened with Nixon was significant, as was what happened with Clinton, and although there was some serious smoke from Whitewater, Starr's expansion of scope into obstruction struck me as a ridiculous witchhunt. What happened with Bork was also significant, and what's going on with Mueller seems suspiciously like both a quid pro quo for Starr, and an insurance policy by the political establishment generally, and for Hillary, in particular. The obvious deal would be for Mueller to hold back in return for Trump not putting pressure on his appointee's to prosecute Hillary, and for the sake of us not devolving into a third world country, I'm fine with that, just as I was fine with what Comey's inaction, despite the fact that she clearly violated the law and that her and Bill raised 100's of millions of dollars from foreign sources while she was Secretary of State.
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 7:32:18 GMT
What if the farmers offered 20/hr full w2? How about 30? I'm sorry, but I don't see you addressing the question I asked, which was very specifically about the issue of this problem of the fate of the children of undocumented human beings who bring those children here to live once those children age into their own majority.
Put aside all the moral judgements from either side of the fence. Can't we all agree the dilemma of the dreamers is a problem? How to solve it?
What I’m saying is the current makeup of the executive and legislative branches of government in this country isn’t conducive to fair wages. Our state legislature, and its executive branch is mirroring that, too, in this state. I can have my say about it tomorrow morning in the voting booth. We're looking at a record turnout of voters tomorrow in this state, which bodes well for change. I really don’t have a problem with immigrants coming to this country. My mother and her grandmother came to this country in the early 1930’s from, Poland. I fully understand the obstacles they encountered as immigrants in a new country, and why my mother worked at jobs nobody else wanted to do after high school, prior to meeting my dad. I’ll be running up to the largest family farm-market/greenhouse/cider mill in the area at some point this morning to pick up 4-5 gallons of fresh pressed apple cider. Yummy stuff. We usually freeze them so we have it through the holidays. While there, I’ll pose your question about 20 bucks an hour and w2 to him. He’s always complaining about not being able to find good help. If he cuts us off from the apple cider in response, I’m going to come looking for you, Bill…. But seriously..... can't you just feel what's about to unfold in this country? And not a moment too soon.... Your grandparents were very smart to have left Poland when they did, and every American can trace the story of their ancestry to people seeking a better life (even Native Americans), and some, like yours (and at least some of mine), in very dramatic circumstances. I don't have a problem with immigrants either, but the reason I posed the scenario's of forcing employers to raise wages instead of importing downward wage pressure, and the plight of the dreamers, is to demonstrate that there are no simple, static solutions to some problems, and that no one side of the debate has a monopoly on sanity or virtue.
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Nov 7, 2018 7:38:06 GMT
Yes, I don't deny your point, but notice that now you've morphed to the idea of evidence from opinion and hearsay. The evidence as to the way Bill treated some women is voluminous, and some of the most damning of that evidence is corroborated by more than one source. I dunno, there just something about openly Bragging, boasting, and then laughing about one's shitty treatment of another human being that imo, takes it all to a whole nother level of "asshole." yeah yeah .. more ad-hominem ..
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