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Post by Figgles on Oct 26, 2018 16:22:17 GMT
It seems some have great difficulty grasping the difference between being 'caught up within/lost to' the story, vs. 'engagement with' the story.
And I think this mostly hinges upon the mistaken idea that after seeing that all experiential content is devoid of Truth, experiential content no longer has any potential to capture interest...that somehow it is now seen as dull, lifeless, boring, not worth even paying attention to.
When you consider that there is no life, no experiencing outside of 'experience' you can see how ludicrous such an idea actually is.
Upon seeing experiential content as empty of Truth, one does not suddenly lose all interest in life. It's just that the 'depth' or 'hold' the story has on you, is no longer all encompassing. Peace is no longer dependent upon arising conditions, which means the arising judgements reflect that and no longer seem so serious/important, themselves now, just arisings with Being, that will ebb on through, absent the presence of a judging, needy 'someone' to hang on to them.
One can continue to engage the story deeply even passionately at times, experiencing the full range of arising emotions, that absent an anchor, will pass on through without any sense of them being problematic.
It remains entirely possible to have a beef with something or someone still. It's just that it will all arise and pass on through without a whole lot of drama...without a sense that something is fundamentally at stake, or fundamentally going 'wrong.'
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Post by Figgles on Oct 26, 2018 16:42:46 GMT
I would agree with that, if that's all Gopal was saying. Of course it's all an interplay. The only question is; Are you lost to/within the story, or do you remain consciously aware of/at one With Being as it arises? Is your Peace conditional upon arising circumstance, or does peace abide regardless of what's arising? What I hear gopal saying is that there is no such thing as unconditional Peace. That Peace is always tied to experiential content. And that there is a point where certain happenings arising in experience, just become an impossibility, because one is so clear. And those happenings are the ones that would evoke a sense of intolerability. Whereas as I see unconditional Peace, one can be in the midst of very 'tumultuous' circumstances and still remain calm, peaceful, aware, never losing sight of the peace of Being within. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4132/world?page=8343#ixzz5V3WTcNFE |
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Post by Figgles on Oct 26, 2018 16:46:46 GMT
Nice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 14:26:41 GMT
I would agree with that, if that's all Gopal was saying. Of course it's all an interplay. The only question is; Are you lost to/within the story, or do you remain consciously aware of/at one With Being as it arises? Is your Peace conditional upon arising circumstance, or does peace abide regardless of what's arising?
What I hear gopal saying is that there is no such thing as unconditional Peace. That Peace is always tied to experiential content. And that there is a point where certain happenings arising in experience, just become an impossibility, because one is so clear. And those happenings are the ones that would evoke a sense of intolerability. Whereas as I see unconditional Peace, one can be in the midst of very 'tumultuous' circumstances and still remain calm, peaceful, aware, never losing sight of the peace of Being within. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4132/world?page=8343#ixzz5V3WTcNFEExperience has to confirm that Peace, If experience doesn't confirm your Peace, then you can't be in Peace. Once again, Free from suffering is Peace. |
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Post by Figgles on Oct 28, 2018 20:23:54 GMT
I would agree with that, if that's all Gopal was saying. Of course it's all an interplay. The only question is; Are you lost to/within the story, or do you remain consciously aware of/at one With Being as it arises? Is your Peace conditional upon arising circumstance, or does peace abide regardless of what's arising?
What I hear gopal saying is that there is no such thing as unconditional Peace. That Peace is always tied to experiential content. And that there is a point where certain happenings arising in experience, just become an impossibility, because one is so clear. And those happenings are the ones that would evoke a sense of intolerability. Whereas as I see unconditional Peace, one can be in the midst of very 'tumultuous' circumstances and still remain calm, peaceful, aware, never losing sight of the peace of Being within. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4132/world?page=8343#ixzz5V3WTcNFEExperience has to confirm that Peace, If experience doesn't confirm your Peace, then you can't be in Peace. Once again, Free from suffering is Peace. The term 'unconditional' Peace references a Peace that is not dependent upon experience. Awareness of the Peace of Being is independent of what's happening within experience. If Peace is dependent upon what's happening in experience,then it is 'conditional' Peace. Something altogether different than "unconditional Peace." The mere absence of suffering (a sense that this is intolerable) does not necessarily equal presence of/awareness of the Peace of Being. We are not only defining "Peace" differently, I'm pretty sure we are also defining 'suffering' differently. I see 'suffering' as the mental overlay of 'I cannot tolerate this'. For example, I don't see an arising of sorrow in & of itself, as suffering, but if there is mental judgement arising along with that, that says this circumstance in it's totality (including this feeling of sorrow) is intolerable, then that is where suffering enters in. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 7:33:01 GMT
Experience has to confirm that Peace, If experience doesn't confirm your Peace, then you can't be in Peace. Once again, Free from suffering is Peace. The term 'unconditional' Peace references a Peace that is not dependent upon experience. Awareness of the Peace of Being is independent of what's happening within experience. If Peace is dependent upon what's happening in experience,then it is 'conditional' Peace. Something altogether different than "unconditional Peace." The mere absence of suffering (a sense that this is intolerable) does not necessarily equal presence of/awareness of the Peace of Being. We are not only defining "Peace" differently, I'm pretty sure we are also defining 'suffering' differently. I see 'suffering' as the mental overlay of 'I cannot tolerate this'. For example, I don't see an arising of sorrow in & of itself, as suffering, but if there is mental judgement arising along with that, that says this circumstance in it's totality (including this feeling of sorrow) is intolerable, then that is where suffering enters in. When the unhappy rollercoaster goes too down, it automatically pulls you into suffering, your judgement would come along the way. You don't have any control, you can't do value assignment differently. Story rules, what happened to you in ST is the best example of that. Story holds the control over us because we are not even for one sec left without the story. Clear seeing changes the the way story unfolds, no doubt. but what is the story now perfectly defines your feel of experience. |
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Post by Figgles on Oct 29, 2018 17:52:34 GMT
When the unhappy rollercoaster goes too down, it automatically pulls you into suffering, your judgement would come along the way. Your judgements lose their strength and depth when you see it's all dream-stuff, all just a story. That does not mean all judgement ceases though, but it does mean that judgements have lost their 'weightiness'....lost their 'substance' just like all the other arising appearances within the story have. When one is still fully enmeshed withing the story (lost to it) his judgements are taken as Truth. He does not see that they too are arisings within the dream of life. Seeing through judgements in that way means they no longer have the power to obscure the fundamental perfection of the story/dream in it's entirety. When we clearly see the fundamental perfection of the story/dream, in its totality, specific happenings, specific circumstances, and even the specific judgements that arise in response to those happenings, take a back-seat to that seeing of underlying perfection. A good term for that is "Equanimity". Keep in mind, if it has spiritual clarity as it's basis, it's does not involve 'control' at all. e·qua·nim·i·ty /ˌekwəˈnimədē/ noun noun: equanimity mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation. It's not about having control. And no, you can't change what you like and what you don't like, but in seeing the inherent emptiness of all experiential content, including arising values and judgements, they lose their power. Seeing that a judgement/value is itself 'not truthy' has a way of changing the depth of emotion/feeling it evokes when it arises. Likes/dislikes still continue post SR, you just no longer take them so seriously. They too, are seen to be part and parcel of arising experiential content. Sure, things played out in a certain way, but at no point was I dragged down into suffering or even into anything that felt "bad" or fundamentally wrong, feeling-wise. The fundamental perfection of the story co-exists with experiences where folks like Reefs are being immature. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that within my story, The narcissist Reefs is an integral facet of the overall 'perfection.' Nothing really went wrong at all there. It's all good. Wouldn't change a thing, even I could. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 4:35:19 GMT
When the unhappy rollercoaster goes too down, it automatically pulls you into suffering, your judgement would come along the way. Your judgements lose their strength and depth when you see it's all dream-stuff, all just a story. That does not mean all judgement ceases though, but it does mean that judgements have lost their 'weightiness'....lost their 'substance' just like all the other arising appearances within the story have. When one is still fully enmeshed withing the story (lost to it) his judgements are taken as Truth. He does not see that they too are arisings within the dream of life. Seeing through judgements in that way means they no longer have the power to obscure the fundamental perfection of the story/dream in it's entirety. When we clearly see the fundamental perfection of the story/dream, in its totality, specific happenings, specific circumstances, and even the specific judgements that arise in response to those happenings, take a back-seat to that seeing of underlying perfection. A good term for that is "Equanimity". Keep in mind, if it has spiritual clarity as it's basis, it's does not involve 'control' at all. e·qua·nim·i·ty /ˌekwəˈnimədē/ noun noun: equanimity mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation. It's not about having control. And no, you can't change what you like and what you don't like, but in seeing the inherent emptiness of all experiential content, including arising values and judgements, they lose their power. Seeing that a judgement/value is itself 'not truthy' has a way of changing the depth of emotion/feeling it evokes when it arises. Likes/dislikes still continue post SR, you just no longer take them so seriously. They too, are seen to be part and parcel of arising experiential content. Sure, things played out in a certain way, but at no point was I dragged down into suffering or even into anything that felt "bad" or fundamentally wrong, feeling-wise. The fundamental perfection of the story co-exists with experiences where folks like Reefs are being immature. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that within my story, The narcissist Reefs is an integral facet of the overall 'perfection.' Nothing really went wrong at all there. It's all good. Wouldn't change a thing, even I could. If you know then why can't you continue there? Story decides to move you from there to here, eh? |
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Post by Figgles on Oct 30, 2018 5:49:56 GMT
Your judgements lose their strength and depth when you see it's all dream-stuff, all just a story. That does not mean all judgement ceases though, but it does mean that judgements have lost their 'weightiness'....lost their 'substance' just like all the other arising appearances within the story have. When one is still fully enmeshed withing the story (lost to it) his judgements are taken as Truth. He does not see that they too are arisings within the dream of life. Seeing through judgements in that way means they no longer have the power to obscure the fundamental perfection of the story/dream in it's entirety. When we clearly see the fundamental perfection of the story/dream, in its totality, specific happenings, specific circumstances, and even the specific judgements that arise in response to those happenings, take a back-seat to that seeing of underlying perfection. A good term for that is "Equanimity". Keep in mind, if it has spiritual clarity as it's basis, it's does not involve 'control' at all. e·qua·nim·i·ty /ˌekwəˈnimədē/ noun noun: equanimity mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation. It's not about having control. And no, you can't change what you like and what you don't like, but in seeing the inherent emptiness of all experiential content, including arising values and judgements, they lose their power. Seeing that a judgement/value is itself 'not truthy' has a way of changing the depth of emotion/feeling it evokes when it arises. Likes/dislikes still continue post SR, you just no longer take them so seriously. They too, are seen to be part and parcel of arising experiential content. Sure, things played out in a certain way, but at no point was I dragged down into suffering or even into anything that felt "bad" or fundamentally wrong, feeling-wise. The fundamental perfection of the story co-exists with experiences where folks like Reefs are being immature. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that within my story, The narcissist Reefs is an integral facet of the overall 'perfection.' Nothing really went wrong at all there. It's all good. Wouldn't change a thing, even I could. If you know then why can't you continue there? Story decides to move you from there to here, eh? I could continue there. It wouldn't really cost me anything. It wouldn't hurt me or cause me to suffer. I just don't want to. I prefer to engage here, where I can express myself with total freedom of expression, absent someone who is interested in controlling 'the way' I express myself. It's honestly not a big deal either way. One of the reasons I'd rather post here, other than the fact that I am completely free to express myself...to say what I really think/mean, is, there is sense that we have a pretty cool forum here, and I'd rather enrich this with my contributions rather than ST. St is a heavily moderated forum where I am but a cog in the wheel, spiritualgab is an easy-going forum where I'm a co-pilot. It's kind of a 'no brainer' really.  |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 2, 2018 15:57:15 GMT
Yup. That's it, and it hinges upon conceptualizing/objectifying/personalizing "God."
Not sure if you're at all familiar with the whole "Course in Miracles" teachings or not..? I read a book many years ago, "The Disappearance Of The Universe," that seemed to have those teachings at it's basis, and from what I could garner, it's a similar view; All suffering, anytime one is swept up in delusion, all absence of clarity, is somehow happening 'outside of' or 'apart from' God.
And while I appreciate the idea that suffering/being temporarily swept up in delusion, does indeed hinge upon the belief or sense that one is apart from God, If there is no separation, ever, then the actuality is that nothing, no experience, no idea, no delusion is ever actually happening apart from or outside of "God."
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