Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 16:51:04 GMT
If you know then why can't you continue there? Story decides to move you from there to here, eh? I could continue there. It wouldn't really cost me anything. It wouldn't hurt me or cause me to suffer. I just don't want to. I prefer to engage here, where I can express myself with total freedom of expression, absent someone who is interested in controlling 'the way' I express myself. It's honestly not a big deal either way. One of the reasons I'd rather post here, other than the fact that I am completely free to express myself...to say what I really think/mean, is, there is sense that we have a pretty cool forum here, and I'd rather enrich this with my contributions rather than ST. St is a heavily moderated forum where I am but a cog in the wheel, spiritualgab is an easy-going forum where I'm a co-pilot. It's kind of a 'no brainer' really. You want to continue or you don't want to continue is decided by the unfolding story. There is nothing else in this universe other than unfolding story. Story is everything. If you have realized yourself to be a witness, then you would be creating the story in which you would be witnessing otherwise you would be creating the story in which you would be acting.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 3, 2018 17:06:14 GMT
You want to continue or you don't want to continue is decided by the unfolding story. There is nothing else in this universe other than unfolding story. Story is everything. If you have realized yourself to be a witness, then you would be creating the story in which you would be witnessing otherwise you would be creating the story in which you would be acting. Story is NOT everything. Story is just an arising within that which I really am, "Being." But sure, my continuation or lack thereof, is indeed part of the story, but it's a rather inconsequential and benign part of the story. Whether I stayed over on ST, or came over here, makes very little difference in terms of being at peace. I'm fine either way. I just prefer to post over here. No big deal either way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 17:11:01 GMT
You want to continue or you don't want to continue is decided by the unfolding story. There is nothing else in this universe other than unfolding story. Story is everything. If you have realized yourself to be a witness, then you would be creating the story in which you would be witnessing otherwise you would be creating the story in which you would be acting. Story is NOT everything. Story is just an arising within that which I really am, "Being." But sure, my continuation or lack thereof, is indeed part of the story, but it's a rather inconsequential and benign part of the story. Whether I stayed over on ST, or came over here, makes very little difference in terms of being at peace. I'm fine either way. I just prefer to post over here. No big deal either way. I don't understand how would you be in Peace when story doesn't support you! Your return back from ST surely must be telling you what story can do to you. You can't remain in Peace when something goes wrong outside. Peace has to confirm from your experience. If you think something is happening but you are not pulled by that then that's also the story which is happening right now.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 3, 2018 22:31:43 GMT
I don't understand how would you be in Peace when story doesn't support you! Your return back from ST surely must be telling you what story can do to you. You can't remain in Peace when something goes wrong outside. Peace has to confirm from your experience. If you think something is happening but you are not pulled by that then that's also the story which is happening right now. It seems you are under the mistaken impression that my stint on ST left me emotionally distraught, or something similar....? It really isn't a big deal. I know who Reefs is and really had already anticipated that unless I came to agree with his point of view, my time there would be limited; that he'd either ban me or severely limit the way I expressed myself. Don't you remember my telling you 'this forum will always be my first choice for engagement'...and that I just wanted a brief chance to respond directly to Reefs over there...? So in that sense, the story went pretty much as I expected it would, but none of that was a big deal. I actually found it kind of funny...derived a bit of entertainment from it all. Reefs is one of those who leaves me almost certain that the one I am dealing with IS in fact, nothing more than a dream figment. There was a time where I found him irritating to the degree that I might feel somewhat bothered or frustrated beyond the initial reading of one of his posts to me, but at this point, I wouldn't even go that far. There are all kinds of personalities out there and once in a awhile, I get a real arsehole ....and that's ok. it's all part and parcel of the perfection of it all. Absent the selfish, narcissist who pops up once & awhile, those extra cool folks who I truly enjoy conversing with, hanging with, just aren't going to stand out near as much. You can't quell the roller-coaster of 'wanted/unwanted.' You're always going to get some of each. But 'unwanted' does not have to mean you lose it emotionally. One can be A-okay even in the face of a delivery they did not specifically 'order.'
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Nov 5, 2018 16:33:44 GMT
I would agree with that, if that's all Gopal was saying. Of course it's all an interplay. The only question is; Are you lost to/within the story, or do you remain consciously aware of/at one With Being as it arises? Is your Peace conditional upon arising circumstance, or does peace abide regardless of what's arising? What I hear gopal saying is that there is no such thing as unconditional Peace. That Peace is always tied to experiential content. And that there is a point where certain happenings arising in experience, just become an impossibility, because one is so clear. And those happenings are the ones that would evoke a sense of intolerability. Whereas as I see unconditional Peace, one can be in the midst of very 'tumultuous' circumstances and still remain calm, peaceful, aware, never losing sight of the peace of Being within. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4132/world?page=8343#ixzz5V3WTcNFEExperience has to confirm that Peace, If experience doesn't confirm your Peace, then you can't be in Peace. Once again, Free from suffering is Peace. One IS at Peace because one IS free from suffering. Where you go horribly wrong is in your interpretation of what another must be experiencing given the 'objective' experience that is outwardly happening. Your theory includes the insistence that certain events MUST cause suffering. You simply don't know that from your perspective.
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Nov 5, 2018 16:50:38 GMT
The term 'unconditional' Peace references a Peace that is not dependent upon experience. Awareness of the Peace of Being is independent of what's happening within experience. If Peace is dependent upon what's happening in experience,then it is 'conditional' Peace. Something altogether different than "unconditional Peace." The mere absence of suffering (a sense that this is intolerable) does not necessarily equal presence of/awareness of the Peace of Being. We are not only defining "Peace" differently, I'm pretty sure we are also defining 'suffering' differently. I see 'suffering' as the mental overlay of 'I cannot tolerate this'. For example, I don't see an arising of sorrow in & of itself, as suffering, but if there is mental judgement arising along with that, that says this circumstance in it's totality (including this feeling of sorrow) is intolerable, then that is where suffering enters in. When the unhappy rollercoaster goes too down, it automatically pulls you into suffering, your judgement would come along the way. You don't have any control, you can't do value assignment differently. Story rules, what happened to you in ST is the best example of that. Story holds the control over us because we are not even for one sec left without the story. Clear seeing changes the the way story unfolds, no doubt. but what is the story now perfectly defines your feel of experience. You don't know what happened to Figs on ST. You only know what you think should have happened. (What would have happened to you)
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Nov 6, 2018 0:49:40 GMT
Yup. That's it, and it hinges upon conceptualizing/objectifying/personalizing "God." Not sure if you're at all familiar with the whole "Course in Miracles" teachings or not..? I read a book many years ago, "The Disappearance Of The Universe," that seemed to have those teachings at it's basis, and from what I could garner, it's a similar view; All suffering, anytime one is swept up in delusion, all absence of clarity, is somehow happening 'outside of' or 'apart from' God. And while I appreciate the idea that suffering/being temporarily swept up in delusion, does indeed hinge upon the belief or sense that one is apart from God, If there is no separation, ever, then the actuality is that nothing, no experience, no idea, no delusion is ever actually happening apart from or outside of "God." Yes, I participated in an ACIM forum for a while. I see ACIM as an attempt to build a bridge from Christianity to nonduality, and so the language and personal God are kept while attempting to (perhaps too subtly) introduce new ways of understanding the symbolism. I could see that focus happening in the teachings, often in a beautiful way, but no interest on the part of the students. Not surprisingly, I was ostracized (or banned. Don't remember which) from that forum too.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 6, 2018 2:10:50 GMT
Yup. That's it, and it hinges upon conceptualizing/objectifying/personalizing "God." Not sure if you're at all familiar with the whole "Course in Miracles" teachings or not..? I read a book many years ago, "The Disappearance Of The Universe," that seemed to have those teachings at it's basis, and from what I could garner, it's a similar view; All suffering, anytime one is swept up in delusion, all absence of clarity, is somehow happening 'outside of' or 'apart from' God. And while I appreciate the idea that suffering/being temporarily swept up in delusion, does indeed hinge upon the belief or sense that one is apart from God, If there is no separation, ever, then the actuality is that nothing, no experience, no idea, no delusion is ever actually happening apart from or outside of "God." Yes, I participated in an ACIM forum for a while. I see ACIM as an attempt to build a bridge from Christianity to nonduality, and so the language and personal God are kept while attempting to (perhaps too subtly) introduce new ways of understanding the symbolism. I could see that focus happening in the teachings, often in a beautiful way, but no interest on the part of the students. Not surprisingly, I was ostracized (or banned. Don't remember which) from that forum too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:13:14 GMT
When the unhappy rollercoaster goes too down, it automatically pulls you into suffering, your judgement would come along the way. You don't have any control, you can't do value assignment differently. Story rules, what happened to you in ST is the best example of that. Story holds the control over us because we are not even for one sec left without the story. Clear seeing changes the the way story unfolds, no doubt. but what is the story now perfectly defines your feel of experience. You don't know what happened to Figs on ST. You only know what you think should have happened. (What would have happened to you) Also, you don't know what the other person was thinking, ie. how they arrived at what they said, or even their understanding of the words which were used. All you can do is hear their quote, and then make an assumption as best you can. The more history you have with a person the better your understanding of what they probably meant, but you can't be certain. Plus how well you hear depends on how well you listen. What happens to the other persons quote after your mind starts analyzing it? It generally goes through some type of spin cycle, and who knows what it might look like when it comes out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:30:33 GMT
Experience has to confirm that Peace, If experience doesn't confirm your Peace, then you can't be in Peace. Once again, Free from suffering is Peace. One IS at Peace because one IS free from suffering. Where you go horribly wrong is in your interpretation of what another must be experiencing given the 'objective' experience that is outwardly happening. Your theory includes the insistence that certain events MUST cause suffering. You simply don't know that from your perspective. I never said that. The event which happened 10 years ago might not cause suffering if it were to happen today. The event which causes suffering need not to cause suffering for you. Hope it makes my point clear to you.
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