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Post by Figgles on Feb 19, 2024 18:40:04 GMT
Yes, and.....notice how LOA/deliberate creation theory starts at the point of the arising interest/desire/focus as though that somehow stands apart from all the other correlates....not even a suspicion that perhaps the movement didn't "begin" there.....and that the arising intent/interest/desire is itself just another cog in the appearance wheel...? An arising desire is itself an appearance/manifestation. What 'caused' that thing to appear? A particular line of focus....a feeling perhaps....a conglomerate of ideas....oh yeah...those too fall under appearance/manifestation.....so wait a minute, what cause those?....hehe....I know you get it. Reefs doesn't though...i'll let you break it to her as she'll take it better coming from the Mutt's mouth than the Fig's.   |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 19, 2024 18:51:41 GMT
Really eh? I don't see how you could be if you aren't completely on board with the idea of a time-bound process of creation and actual causation within experience...volitional and separately existent things/objects/entities, as well.
yeah, the very terms "creation/manifestation" have inherent to them, a time-bound process...a "becoming" vs. simply "being."
Reefs says LOA is an inviolable law that can be observed to be in play imminently....but she's failed to explain then how there can be an arising feeling state that is joyful and peaceful in tandem with cancer/empty wallet/sittin' in a wheel-chair.
Feeling state is not inextricable tied to appearing bodily conditions. What does that say about Attraction/like begets like being an inviolable law?
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Post by Figgles on Feb 19, 2024 19:22:56 GMT
It IS "unsual" though for such an indepth and drawn out, insistent conversation to be happening on a Nonduality forum...a venue that in the past has been mostly dedicated to the unveiling of Truth....prior to mind/beyond appearance realization.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 19, 2024 22:48:33 GMT
Appreciating the clarity, Don.  Your relative, extremely logical/factual view is the perfect antidote to the attempt to mix magical thinking with a poor understanding of science. To the bolded, excellent points indeed. The idea that there must be some kind of "transcendent/mystical/spiritual" reason/cause/explanation for why certain things happen, is as I see it, a sort of 'sickness' itself that rides on the coat tails of an imaginary separate, existent me character. Kind of funny, as I've shared here previously, 2 years ago was dx'd with breast cancer...was considered invasive but had not yet spread beyond initial site but was supposedly a 'grade 3' considered to be a more virulent form according to Oncologist....chemo was recommended. I refused the majority of traditional treatments...no chemo...no hormone therapy....just went with lumpectomy/ surgery and very short and targeted radiation treatment, (5 days) mostly to satisfy my family who were pretty freaked out over the whole thing. At present, no cancer, still in remission...I guess they don't call it 'full' remission for a few more years, but I'm not particularly concerned. I'd be willing to bet though, Reefs 'aint gonna use my story as a reference for how absence of resistance 'creates/manifests' positive outcome  ...in fact, on the heels of my previous postings about the cancer, she usually chooses that point in time to start up the Niz/Ramana cancer convo once again.....the takeaway; Figgles had cancer....thus, this proves that Figgles is a miserable, resistant, unhappy, mis-aligned person. Imagine, using someone's sharing of something like that, as a means to try to take them down a notch....hehe...ya just can't make this shit up! |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 21, 2024 19:57:20 GMT
What really IS the realization of (S)elf, other than a realization that you are not a "some-thing" that could ever actually stand apart from/not BE aligned with, Source?
Thus, so long as SR IS in fact, abiding, and there's not a return to delusion, there can be no "mis-alignment" with Source. Mis-alignment is only ever imagined...it really is nothing more than the mistake of separation...of imagining what you are to BE an SVP.
Once that's gone, what could BE mis-aligned with Source? SR is the realization/seeing through of being something 'other than' Source. There is but one thingless thing and you are IT!
It's only ever the sense of separation/being an SVP that equals arising thoughts/feelings/senses of 'being separate.' That's all erroneous, imagined funamental separation-based thoughts ARE....they arise hand in hand with an imagined SVP. When there is no longer an SVP being imagined, thoughts reflect that. There are no longer thoughts that have that erroneously imagined "fundamental" limitation/boundedness, inherent to them.
Thus, where there is abiding SR, there cannot be so called "mis-alignment" with Source. The Truth is, there is no such thing as mis-alignment...just a 'state' whereby separation is imagined....only erroneous/false thoughts that say "I am a something" that can somehow become "out of alignment" with Source, and according to LOA'ers, is so much so, is to such a degree, that ensuing manifest reality will present intolerable/difficult conditions...things....situations.
"intolerable/difficult" conditions, things and situations are always in the eye of the beholder. They are "judged" to be so. There are no inherently bad/wrong conditions. Minding makes it so. Personal judgments make it so.
The whole LOA shtick is based upon a series of erroneous/false ideas.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 21, 2024 21:03:08 GMT
"Intuition" is but another appearing facet....itself a phenomenal manifestation within the dream.
Notice how mind/ego/SVP insists upon leaping in to insinuate itself....."I/me"...."got a thought"...."I/me" noticed"...."I found it interesting,"...."similar approach to the one I/me use to project."
"I consider this srendipitous"...and to then, insist it is that "I/me" who is volitional and causal to whatever else is happening.
All of that, including all "your personal" judgments and opinions about what happened, part and parcel of the overriding dream.
You cannot separate out any one facet of it to denote it as fundamentally causal/creative. Absent that, where does that leave all your theories about the "hows/whys" of the very fact of "an experience"?
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Post by Figgles on Feb 21, 2024 21:48:45 GMT
Wake up, and it's crystal clear; there are no "inviolable" laws that Absolutely dictate how life unfolds...No appearance...no phenomenal thing, idea, thought, feeling, which Absolutely determines a manifest, future appearing thing or condition.
Within the dream...within the unfolding, appearing, sequential unfolding, there are tendencies, (also apparent!) towards patterns containing correlated events, things, thoughts/ideas/feelings. But that's it.
Any and all 'tendencies' that seem to underly the unfolding of life, are themselves, appearance only...thus, devoid of actuality....devoid of existence...not Truth.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 22, 2024 20:02:09 GMT
Ah...now we're getting to the real meat of the matter!
LOA/deliberate creation teachings never pay any need to the nature of the 'desires" themselves.....it matters not if there it's based upon a deep delusion of actual limitation/egoic need....seeking for hedonistic pleasures, or not. There's also no credence given to the fact that those designates of "good/bad" lie in the judgments of ego-mind and are not Absolutes.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 23, 2024 20:17:33 GMT
But that experience of being a someone/entity that "volitionally chooses" to "shift attention to desired aspect" is itself, part an parcel of experience.
Highest interest is always playing out. The interest/intent to shift attention to most desired aspects of what's appearing, is but a cog in the overall, seamless movement.
When there is the idea in play that "I, as body-mind/person am an existent, volitional, creative entity, arising thoughts/ideas/beleifs as well as specific kinds of intents/desires that reflect that misconceived/deluded viewpoint, will also be in play.
This is an example of how the presence of the delusion of separation vs. the seeing through/absence of delusion of separation, impacts experience.
The entire LOA/deliberate creator ontology, hinges upon imagined separation. When Oneness is realized, it's crystal clear, there is no actual causation/creation within the dream...nothing is actually 'attracting/creating" anything else. Feeling states are as much "an appearance only" as is the person for whom the feeling applies to, as is the desire for a different condition, as is the appearance of that desired condition or the appearance of a condition that is deemed "wrong/bad/not-liked."
The shifting of attention towards desired aspects has an erronously imagined, separate, volitional person (who is attempting to gain something that he currently does not have) behind it.
When that imagined SVP is no longer in the mix, attention effortlessly goes where the highest interest takes it. It's seamless and thre's no longer any reason why there would be an interest in "controlling or directing" attention.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 23, 2024 20:56:26 GMT
Nope. The "impersonal" transcendent viewpoint sees all supposed "laws" as part and parcel of the realm of "appearance." Which means, there are not actual, fundamental "laws that govern/dictate what can/will appear" at All! At the end of the day, all of that is 'in the dream' and you have no way of knowing for Absolute certain that any of it is true or not. It's all speculation/assumption/theory/belief. Well, the apparent person is not an illusion.....a person/body-me/me character, as well as "you/other" characters, DO appear, but the question is, are they each as apparent, discrete entities, inherently existent in their own right..or discrete 'entities' at all? (they are not ) But, the existent entity you are mistaking yourself to be...yes! that IS an illusion/delusion....there is no "inherently existent entity"....just an appearance and an appearance has no actual "causative/creative" power to create or to control. Yes! And where to begin? Prior to conception..birth?....at birth...the baby's first arising 'feeling state' as the shock of cold air and glaring lights....according to LOA theory, "like attracts like" things should be steadily downhill from there... |
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Your relative, extremely logical/factual view is the perfect antidote to the attempt to mix magical thinking with a poor understanding of science.
...in fact, on the heels of my previous postings about the cancer, she usually chooses that point in time to start up the Niz/Ramana cancer convo once again.....the takeaway; Figgles had cancer....thus, this proves that Figgles is a miserable, resistant, unhappy, mis-aligned person.