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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 14:55:24 GMT
how do you know you are left with no perception? Because as it returns it becomes clear that it was gone. It is possible to go so deeply into this that one becomes completely non functioning and cannot eat or do anything. This is rare, but most of us have the capacity to enter into it deeply enough to understand that there is a state prior to perception. But, I don't think you are interested which is fine, I am happy to talk with you about what you call 'witness mode' ( to me it is a state of 'non-resistance') yeah. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:02:02 GMT
He's talking about being conscious of the witnessing. Yes, there is a background thought would continue to inform you that you are witnessing in this case! It's not a thought. The witness just means awareness knowing itself. That's not a thought. A thought would be witnessed. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:04:25 GMT
What you're calling 'trying to get out of a situation so hard' is being applied to mundane things like averting your eyes when a horror scene come on. Based on past conversations I believe it includes anything that you want to change. If you insist on defining that as suffering, then there is no way out of suffering. I know when I suffer! It's a kind of internal pain I want to escape no matter whether I am watching a real event or watching in a movie. Movement of appearance has the power to pull me in. Do you really thinks that's suffering. Have you seen people screaming on a scary rollercoaster ride and they are enjoying every second of it! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:08:10 GMT
Witnessing is spontaneous whether you are doing some practice or not. You cannot make it happen by choice. That in itself shows you are not the doer. Then you know you are the witness but you are not in witnessing mode. You are creating and perceiving, you would create the controlling when you believe yourself to be an actor. you would create differently when you identify yourself to be a witness. This is confusing because the controlling thought can arise without being in bondage to it and hence not suffer. This is a big misunderstanding in this discussion and it comes up again and again! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:10:45 GMT
I disagreed. Perceiving is not arising from awareness. Awareness is perceiving itself. Yes, 'awareness' is a doing for you, for me, it is a beingness. We disagree, but I think I can still ask you about the suffering. Surely awareness is both beingness and doing, because movement of mind and perceiving are carried by awareness. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:13:54 GMT
You know after when knowing starts to happen. Like when you awake from deep sleep, you know you have been in sleep. how do you know you are left with no perception? The you that knows absence of perception is awareness. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 15:17:03 GMT
how do you know you are left with no perception? Because as it returns it becomes clear that it was gone. You don't have to wait for perception to return to know it is absent. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Aug 9, 2017 15:47:14 GMT
Yes, 'awareness' is a doing for you, for me, it is a beingness. We disagree, but I think I can still ask you about the suffering. Surely awareness is both beingness and doing, because movement of mind and perceiving are carried by awareness. That's okay, but I would still insist that it is fundamentally a beingness. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Aug 9, 2017 15:49:32 GMT
Because as it returns it becomes clear that it was gone. You don't have to wait for perception to return to know it is absent. Well regardless of whether I agree with that or not, I would never say that to gopal, because any implication of a knowing will very understandably be taken by him to mean that perceiving is fundamental. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 16:01:46 GMT
Surely awareness is both beingness and doing, because movement of mind and perceiving are carried by awareness. That's okay, but I would still insist that it is fundamentally a beingness. Yes. |
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