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Post by Figgles on Aug 28, 2019 16:28:49 GMT
Weeellll I'd be mincing words if I didn't express this next opinion. We can't have that!  Yes, It very interesting how that works. They really don't. Where I see fallacious ideas about SR, ideas misrepresented as Truth, I'm gonna speak no matter who it is sayin' it. The interest is not in the realization status per se, the interest is in pointing to Truth, illuminating delusion. And indeed, if one is deluding himself with fallacious ideas about what it means to be SR, that ultimately DOES say something about his realizational status, but hammering that home as a specific conclusion is really NOT my focus. And I gotta say, I find it kind of odd how you for one, take my interest in pointing to/talking about what is True what is not these days, as indicative of proof of an intense and focused 'personal' interest. It's really not. It doesn't matter who is pooping on referring to the phenomenal world as 'appearance only,' or who is insisting that knowing it's all Self means you therefore know that appearances/people are for certain, experiencing, I'm going to address what I see to be the delusion behind that. Again, what you see as intense, relentless focus upon pointing out certain persons to be not SR, is really an intense, relentless interest to point to Truth. I'll turn things on you here and suggest that your reading in and your surety of a personal interest on my part, and an intent on my part to render certain/specific folks 'SR status' as nullified, might be an opportunity for you. Just because the revelation that one is holding to an erroneous idea does ultimately mean that he's not fully SR, does not mean that proving folks to be not SR is the motivating factor for my conversing on forum. The past posts/assertions of Reefs I've been asking out, and the apparent conflict between what he said then and what he says now, if he'd address them without getting personal, without feeling the need to 'defend' anything, could result in some real quality conversation that would be completely in line with the forum vision. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 28, 2019 16:35:52 GMT
I'm willing to admit that I was not able to see some things about him, but there's also volumes of evidence unearthed by Figs that makes it clear something has radically changed. To some extent I see that as a change in terminology. He's adapted "camouflage" from the Jane Roberts Seth material, and I think there's a translation between that and when he used the word "appearance" in the past. The interest in kensho was definitely more of a shift in perspective, but one that I'd guess he'd likely characterize as an informing of mind. I didn't notice him addressing that shift in what he wrote in response to figs bringing up what he used to write about experience. We can surmise, and that's really all we can do as he refuses to directly answer many of these questions, even though those questions have been asked in an unheated, civil manner. |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 28, 2019 16:37:57 GMT
I think we're talking almost exclusively about Satch. I chose not to play the most enlightened game, and Figs chose to counter his self promotion. Nothing wrong with either approach, as I see it. BTW, the Satch self promo is likely unconscious, which is why I kept pointing out what was happening.  (I love it when your sense of humor shows up!  |
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muttley
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Post by muttley on Aug 28, 2019 23:19:51 GMT
Weeellll I'd be mincing words if I didn't express this next opinion. Your thought processes seem far more ordered to me these days than they did five years ago, but then again maybe it seems that way to me because I tend to agree with your position in most of your debates these times around. I do think that an objective case could be made and I'm sure you'll express a different opinion about what it was like for you back then.
But ideological challenges don't have to be personalized. Seems to me you have an intense and focused, personal interest in the realization status of people who challenge your realization status or who criticize the ideas you use to express what you've realized. This isn't to say that I haven't generated content from the same interest in the past, but the intensity and relentlessness that you pursue it is significant, and might be an opportunity for you. It's sort of a flip-side, mirror image to constant status updates and competing in the enlightenment game. Call it, if you will, the "you're NOT enlightened" game. To be clear, I also see that same pattern going on to some extent, with some of the people on the other side of your dialogs.
And ST management has complained about the pics, poems and songs at various times over the years as well. I think we're talking almost exclusively about Satch. I chose not to play the most enlightened game, and Figs chose to counter his self promotion. Nothing wrong with either approach, as I see it. BTW, the Satch self promo is likely unconscious, which is why I kept pointing out what was happening. Oh, most definitely about reefs and a few others as well, in my opinion, each to various matter of degree. With andy it's to the point where he started denying any claim to realization years ago (unless he doesn't), which is a strategy that just doesn't work in the end. And right, nothing ever wrong with WIBIGO. It's just -- and we've had this dialog many times now -- what I perceive is a complete deafness that happens at some point to the enlightened exhaulted one at having their status challenged, to the point where they start getting abusive. In my opinion, there's not much value in that dialog, well before the time they lose their sh!t. At least, not past the umpteenth time it happens. |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by muttley on Aug 28, 2019 23:21:56 GMT
I've telepathitically channeled reefs and he's saying: "Shaun don't pay me enough to keep doing that.  " To keep doing what, acknowledging progress?  Hey, maybe Shaun should give him a raise. Like maybe even double his pay?  It takes time and attention to keep track of what's going on, especially, you have to figure, he likely had multiple private dialogs happening at the same time. Then he has to eventually make a decision about what to do, one that's never going to please everyone and likely will displease most everyone to one degree or another. |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Aug 28, 2019 23:30:49 GMT
Weeellll I'd be mincing words if I didn't express this next opinion. We can't have that! Yes, It very interesting how that works. They really don't. Where I see fallacious ideas about SR, ideas misrepresented as Truth, I'm gonna speak no matter who it is sayin' it. The interest is not in the realization status per se, the interest is in pointing to Truth, illuminating delusion. And indeed, if one is deluding himself with fallacious ideas about what it means to be SR, that ultimately DOES say something about his realizational status, but hammering that home as a specific conclusion is really NOT my focus. And I gotta say, I find it kind of odd how you for one, take my interest in pointing to/talking about what is True what is not these days, as indicative of proof of an intense and focused 'personal' interest. It's really not. It doesn't matter who is pooping on referring to the phenomenal world as 'appearance only,' or who is insisting that knowing it's all Self means you therefore know that appearances/people are for certain, experiencing, I'm going to address what I see to be the delusion behind that. Again, what you see as intense, relentless focus upon pointing out certain persons to be not SR, is really an intense, relentless interest to point to Truth. I'll turn things on you here and suggest that your reading in and your surety of a personal interest on my part, and an intent on my part to render certain/specific folks 'SR status' as nullified, might be an opportunity for you. Just because the revelation that one is holding to an erroneous idea does ultimately mean that he's not fully SR, does not mean that proving folks to be not SR is the motivating factor for my conversing on forum. The past posts/assertions of Reefs I've been asking out, and the apparent conflict between what he said then and what he says now, if he'd address them without getting personal, without feeling the need to 'defend' anything, could result in some real quality conversation that would be completely in line with the forum vision. Yes, over the years, you've consistently found objectivity to be quite odd, and your personalization of the dialogs is quite an objective aspect of your writing (much like this sentence illustrates), as is the intensity and focus of the attention you apply to those dialogs. Just get empirical about it, and count the percentage of dialogs you have that involve the topic of personal realization status, and notice how these tend to be the ones that last the longest, and keep recurring the most frequently. It might seem like an impersonal interest in the existential truth to you as you're engaging in it, but. Is it. Really?  |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 28, 2019 23:31:35 GMT
To keep doing what, acknowledging progress? Hey, maybe Shaun should give him a raise. Like maybe even double his pay? It takes time and attention to keep track of what's going on, especially, you have to figure, he likely had multiple private dialogs happening at the same time. Then he has to eventually make a decision about what to do, one that's never going to please everyone and likely will displease most everyone to one degree or another. If it's really so time consuming, a thankless job that's more of a pain than a pleasure, why not just retire...?  What's really at stake if he were to throw in the towel...? Clearly, he enjoys having the forum conform to his personal vision, but even more, he enjoys being able to control those who challenge him. |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Aug 28, 2019 23:37:00 GMT
Weeellll I'd be mincing words if I didn't express this next opinion. We can't have that! Yes, It very interesting how that works. Seems to me that you're good at spotting giraffes now days. Isn't it interesting how the giraffer seems to miss the obvious? |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Aug 28, 2019 23:43:08 GMT
It takes time and attention to keep track of what's going on, especially, you have to figure, he likely had multiple private dialogs happening at the same time. Then he has to eventually make a decision about what to do, one that's never going to please everyone and likely will displease most everyone to one degree or another. If it's really so time consuming, a thankless job that's more of a pain than a pleasure, why not just retire...? What's really at stake if he were to throw in the towel...? Clearly, he enjoys having the forum conform to his personal vision, but even more, he enjoys being able to control those who challenge him. I'll validate that opinion to some degree, sure. But it is the moderator's job to control, after all. And have you ever seen the trick where someone starts whispering in a room that's erupted in a cacophony? The idea is to get attention by making people interested in what you're saying. This isn't to imply that you've got any interest in a trick or getting people interested, but the repetitive challenges, over time, are more like the cacophony, and people start to tune that out as background noise after a while.
This ongoing battle you have with him has filled quite a bit of bandwidth over the years. To what end?
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Post by Figgles on Aug 28, 2019 23:47:05 GMT
We can't have that! Yes, It very interesting how that works. They really don't. Where I see fallacious ideas about SR, ideas misrepresented as Truth, I'm gonna speak no matter who it is sayin' it. The interest is not in the realization status per se, the interest is in pointing to Truth, illuminating delusion. And indeed, if one is deluding himself with fallacious ideas about what it means to be SR, that ultimately DOES say something about his realizational status, but hammering that home as a specific conclusion is really NOT my focus. And I gotta say, I find it kind of odd how you for one, take my interest in pointing to/talking about what is True what is not these days, as indicative of proof of an intense and focused 'personal' interest. It's really not. It doesn't matter who is pooping on referring to the phenomenal world as 'appearance only,' or who is insisting that knowing it's all Self means you therefore know that appearances/people are for certain, experiencing, I'm going to address what I see to be the delusion behind that. Again, what you see as intense, relentless focus upon pointing out certain persons to be not SR, is really an intense, relentless interest to point to Truth. I'll turn things on you here and suggest that your reading in and your surety of a personal interest on my part, and an intent on my part to render certain/specific folks 'SR status' as nullified, might be an opportunity for you. Just because the revelation that one is holding to an erroneous idea does ultimately mean that he's not fully SR, does not mean that proving folks to be not SR is the motivating factor for my conversing on forum. The past posts/assertions of Reefs I've been asking out, and the apparent conflict between what he said then and what he says now, if he'd address them without getting personal, without feeling the need to 'defend' anything, could result in some real quality conversation that would be completely in line with the forum vision. Yes, over the years, you've consistently found objectivity to be quite odd, and your personalization of the dialogs is quite an objective aspect of your writing (much like this sentence illustrates), as is the intensity and focus of the attention you apply to those dialogs. Just get empirical about it, and count the percentage of dialogs you have that involve the topic of personal realization status, and notice how these tend to be the ones that last the longest, and keep recurring the most frequently. It might seem like an impersonal interest in the existential truth to you as you're engaging in it, but. Is it. Really? Sure, ultimately revealing one who says they are SR as deluded, and therefore, not actually SR, may indeed, be the end result, a by-product of challenging someone, but to insist that that potential end result is proof that that's my main intent/focus, is screwy. |
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What's really at stake if he were to throw in the towel...? Clearly, he enjoys having the forum conform to his personal vision, but even more, he enjoys being able to control those who challenge him.