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Post by Figgles on Feb 10, 2024 18:57:37 GMT
The "unlimited/unbounded" pointer is not some sort of magic wand that renders every personal idea/belief, every mind-satisfying idea, as Truth/actual.
In fact, "not knowing".....the realized absence of inherent existence is not mind or ego satisfying at all. There is nothing there for the separate person...nothing there to buoy up feelings of contentment...satisfaction.
If you find mind/ego rebelling as you encounter a pointer to emptiness, that is likely an indication you're butting up against a glimmer...and mind is leaping in to try to keep the SVP in play.
That 'anger' and the big shoulder chip that so many seekers display as they are told news that doesn't sit well, is a great place to inquire into. Pure gold there if, (and only IF) there is self-honestly....brutal sincerity.
Inquiry for the purpose of unveiling Truth, is not for the feint of heart.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2024 20:57:03 GMT
Well, you're missing one of the main tenets of engagement....none of it is personal. That which is being challenged are views, generally not personal character. You are quite convinced that you see ego and an attempt to self aggrandize via 'winning' the combat. I'm pretty sure there is nothing I could write/share that would convince you otherwise. You entered into the conversation with what seemed to be a personal chip on your shoulder...it's pretty clear that as a person, you do no like me. All fine and good, but Truth-talk/Dharma combat should ultimately be as free of all that as possible. Now you're just being a Dharma Queen.  And as DQ, you have long operated by specific rules. Its plain to see what those rules are. Expose the other's spiritual error or delusion, and be as unrelentling as it takes, to make the other see their error of their way or until their delusion breaks, at all costs, and without regard or respect for whether or not the other wishes to be so engaged or feels insulted or aggreived by your actions. Right? ....as I see it, "dharma combat" is an integral facet of any Nonduality forum...if you're not up for holding your understandings up to the light of deep scrutiny, what are they worth? According to the rules you have stated numerous times, I should be as unrelenting with you as possible, to make you see the error of your way. Right? And here, now, in these discussions, I see your understanding of yourself as being an SR expert with right to challenge anyones elses SR status, as flawed. I do in fact see delusion in your claim of spiritual attainment. I hear the echoes in your words. They are tinny and intellectual. Sorry if that feels like an insult. Its not meant to be. Its simply the truth as I see it. And it is my duty, according to the dharma rules you operate by, to save you from yourself, to get you to see you as I see you, right? Regardless of how you feel about me doing so. Right? And btw, I know why you don't like anonymity, not knowing who I am. It forces you to come empty, without all the preconceived notions, scripts and unfinished business you would normally bring into a conversation with someone familiar. Coming empty is, obviously, not something you like very much, and may not even be capable of. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 10, 2024 22:46:15 GMT
Now you're just being a Dharma Queen. And as DQ, you have long operated by specific rules. Its plain to see what those rules are. DQ?  Sure, I'll take that if that's what you're servin' up.  (That may look a sceptre, but it's actually a zen stick for thwacking when deluded statements arise ) Not so at all. As I see it, anyone who is sharing their views and making bold assertions, often in counter to other views, on a forum supposedly dedicated to ferreting out fundamental Truth, has by virtue of doing that...being involved, demonstrated themselves to be up for such dialogue/challenge. Challenge of ideas is part and parcel of all discussion/inquiry about 'what is actually so.' I would never accost someone off forum, who has not demonstrated an interest in Nonduality with the same type of challenge of their views. It's not about "shoulds." All depends what your interest actually IS. If you are sincerely interested in Truth and you see delusion in my assertions, then in a convo about Truth, on this forum, yes, you are free to be as unrelenting in your challenge of those perceived delusions on part, as you want....while of course, without spiralling down into abject personal derision and nastiness. I sent Krsna packing a ways back a he refused to stick to the parameters I'd initially laid out for him here. His posts were mostly of a religious nature and not about Truth/Nonduality....I tried to compromise by giving him his own specific area where he could post til his heart's content, but he refused to keep his postings there, even after I asked nicely. I don't hold to a lot of "shoulds" when they come to posting on this forum, but stuff like that...yeah....I will crack down if/when I see it's warranted. Feel free though to pursue a line of challenge as far as you like though. So long as I don't lose interest due to repetition, dharma challenge is on baby! You have though gone further than that, haven't you? You're speaking to more than just a "flawed" viewpoint or a deluded claim....you've suggested that I am propelled by an egoic intent to prove others wrong....myself right. You posted an image that suggests I am devoid of love in my heart....all fine and good, i'm a big girl and am not gonna break down as you invoke my character, but own it...why try to sugar-coat what you've said and what your intent is here? If you find my "rules of operation" so distateful and so lacking in Love, why would you want to perpetuate them by taking them on and behaving accordingly to them, yourself? Do you see the hypocrisy inherent there? It's not so much that I "don't like" anonymity, just curious and it's strange that one who is accusing me of being all about labels/identity, is the one hiding behind a different screen name. Blatant hypocrisy there. But...As I said, all good,...if I really took issue with it, I'd force ya to fess up or ban you....maybe even block you if I'm taking a page from ST.  (Don't worry...not my style, Ricky). |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 10, 2024 23:05:07 GMT
For what it's worth, have always rezzed with the idea of "when in Rome," but that changes when one has been nothing but critical of what goes on in "Rome."
I wonder q if you can explain to me what's behind the whole dealy of condemning a particular behavior, finding it terribly offensive and wrong, but then joining right on in with it, engaging in said behavior yourself?
From pretty much my earliest memory as a kid, it was this kind of hypocrisy that always left me wondering.....are you aware of it? If so, what makes you okay with it? I am sincerely interested in both questions.
My highest value is integrity...not being a hypocrite...walking the talk and even though I learned early that not everyone has that as their highest value, it continues to baffle me how some can talk a blue streak but when it comes to walk, no congruence whatsoever.
In short q, you are calling me out for behavior you judge to be mean, wrong and unfair...absence a loving heart, but your response to that is to leap in and adopt that same way of being that you say is wrong?.... I don't get that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2024 2:28:58 GMT
Not so at all. As I see it, anyone who is sharing their views and making bold assertions, often in counter to other views, on a forum supposedly dedicated to ferreting out fundamental Truth, has by virtue of doing that...being involved, demonstrated themselves to be up for such dialogue/challenge. Challenge of ideas is part and parcel of all discussion/inquiry about 'what is actually so.' No, it does not. It's a rule you've made up in your mind and demand others play by. Its twisted all out of reality. A forum is just as much a place of human congregation as any town square or main street. Its delusional to think everyone is there for the same reasons. When anyone, anywhere, forum or town square, church or sub shop, for any reason decides that they no longer wish to engage you, and say so directly by word or by deed, and you violate that, it's nothing but total disrespect. Total. It is arrogance of the worse kind to stay to in anyone's face after they made it clear that they don't want you there. This is different from the one who decides they wish to stay in the ring with you. In that case, have at it all you wish. Unfortuanately, you don't seem know the difference between the two. And not knowing that is the reason you are relegated to posting pretty much alone over here when you could actually be contributing to important conversations elsewhere but for the lack of that basic respect. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 11, 2024 3:30:10 GMT
Not so at all. As I see it, anyone who is sharing their views and making bold assertions, often in counter to other views, on a forum supposedly dedicated to ferreting out fundamental Truth, has by virtue of doing that...being involved, demonstrated themselves to be up for such dialogue/challenge. Challenge of ideas is part and parcel of all discussion/inquiry about 'what is actually so.' No, it does not. It's a rule you've made up in your mind and demand others play by. Its twisted all out of reality. A forum is just as much a place of human congregation as any town square or main street. Its delusional to think everyone is there for the same reasons. When anyone, anywhere, forum or town square, church or sub shop, for any reason decides that they no longer wish to engage you, and say so directly by word or by deed, and you violate that, it's nothing but total disrespect. Total. It is arrogance of the worse kind to stay to in anyone's face after they made it clear that they don't want you there. This is different from the one who decides they wish to stay in the ring with you. In that case, have at it all you wish. Unfortuanately, you don't seem know the difference between the two. And not knowing that is the reason you are relegated to posting pretty much alone over here when you could actually be contributing to important conversations elsewhere but for the lack of that basic respect. I would completely agree with that IF we were not talking specifically about a forum supposedly dedicated to Truth "at all costs." That's what a sincere interest towards Truth entails....complete willingness to hold your views up to the glaring light of scrutiny, even when it gets uncomfy. That said, I am all up for remaining civil as that happens and have strived to do so...no need to devolve into personal insult and nastiness..after, all, the challenge of ideas itself, it's REALLY NOT "personal". So what this comes down to, is that you and I hold different opinions about what's respectful/disrespectful behavior-wise, and what's not. All good from where I stand....for me, a Nonduality discussion forum is subject to completely different rules of decorum/respect in terms of challenge of views than any other kind of forum....you on the other hand, insist I am a disrespectful person who is violating others in a manner that is....what..? unforgiveable.....intolerable...? That right there is something you might wanna inquire into.  You're here...why again? (this is NOT a complaint!)...really am curious. Are you here to berate me and tell me how awful a person you think I am or are you here to challenge the pointers i put forth? |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 11, 2024 3:47:10 GMT
No, it does not. It's a rule you've made up in your mind and demand others play by. Its twisted all out of reality. A forum is just as much a place of human congregation as any town square or main street. Its delusional to think everyone is there for the same reasons. When anyone, anywhere, forum or town square, church or sub shop, for any reason decides that they no longer wish to engage you, and say so directly by word or by deed, and you violate that, it's nothing but total disrespect. Total. It is arrogance of the worse kind to stay to in anyone's face after they made it clear that they don't want you there. This is different from the one who decides they wish to stay in the ring with you. In that case, have at it all you wish. Unfortuanately, you don't seem know the difference between the two. And not knowing that is the reason you are relegated to posting pretty much alone over here when you could actually be contributing to important conversations elsewhere but for the lack of that basic respect. I don't think you recognize what I nice little following of readers I have here on this forum...perhaps at this point, best designated as a "blog" of sorts. I regularly hear from those who follow and who reach out, that they very much regard the content and format of my postings to be valuable and important. Those I hear from, for the most part, agree with my take on a forum that is dedicated to Truth at all costs, being far different from any other kind of forum, and thus, one who engages on such a forum, is expected to be up for direct, civil challenge. I think the relatively low engagement with such pointed and direct challenge is a testament to the fact that the seeking mind/ego hates being challenged and when a seeker comes to a point where he believes he's awake (but isn't) the spiritual ego inherent to that, gets very strong...very guarded of the sacred ideas that prop it up. As I've said and will continue to say, "SR is not for the feint of heart." If ya can't stand the heat....best stay outta the kitchen. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2024 4:04:57 GMT
I would completely agree with that IF we were not talking specifically about a forum supposedly dedicated to Truth "at all costs." A forum supposedly dedicated to Truth "at all costs"? That is precisely where your delusion arises. Nowhere does the forum suggest anything even remotely like that. Its an egoic mind construct all your own that few, if any, would agree with. This is what it says in case you've never read it. "This board is intended for anyone with a sincere interest in a spiritual path or teacher and is not limited to those interested in spiritual teachers reviewed at Spiritualteachers.org. Only members may post. Think of this place as a virtual ashram and consider these words by Richard Rose: "We need a spot on earth upon which to meet. A homing ground, but not an intellectual prison. A library and clubhouse of philosophers. A place with quiet rooms where a person can be alone if he desires. A clearinghouse of contacts, or a place where a cardfile might be kept with names of those who wish to be contacted.... Many people with philosophic drive feel no compulsion to mingle with anyone except their colleagues. But these people must be unaware of future growth opportunities for themselves, and they must be unaware that they must help others in order to grow themselves."Nope, doesn't say a single thing about truth at all costs. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 11, 2024 4:12:32 GMT
I would completely agree with that IF we were not talking specifically about a forum supposedly dedicated to Truth "at all costs." A forum supposedly dedicated to Truth "at all costs"? That is precisely where your delusion arises. Nowhere does the forum suggest anything even remotely like that. Its an egoic mind construct all your own that few, if any, would agree with. This is what it says in case you've never read it. "This board is intended for anyone with a sincere interest in a spiritual path or teacher and is not limited to those interested in spiritual teachers reviewed at Spiritualteachers.org. Only members may post. Think of this place as a virtual ashram and consider these words by Richard Rose: "We need a spot on earth upon which to meet. A homing ground, but not an intellectual prison. A library and clubhouse of philosophers. A place with quiet rooms where a person can be alone if he desires. A clearinghouse of contacts, or a place where a cardfile might be kept with names of those who wish to be contacted.... Many people with philosophic drive feel no compulsion to mingle with anyone except their colleagues. But these people must be unaware of future growth opportunities for themselves, and they must be unaware that they must help others in order to grow themselves."Nope, doesn't say a single thing about truth at all costs. I am talking about the interest in "Truth/Nonduality" itself....an actual sincere interest necessarily comes hand in hand with the willingness to uphold all ideas to light of intense scrutiny....a sincere interest involves being up for leaving no stone unturned. And I'm not really sure at this point precisely what you're belly-aching about here. I'm no longer on ST...and there's no laws against taking post content from one forum to comment upon it on another....the posts are considered 'public' once they are posted. If you think you're somehow going to convince me that civil response and discussion to posts that originated on a public forum is deeply, morally wrong and that in that, I'm going to stop doing what I'm doing, your operating under a huge misconception. Absent that, what is your point exactly....to simply shame me for the behaviors you deem to be wrong and intolerable? I don't get it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2024 4:40:55 GMT
A forum supposedly dedicated to Truth "at all costs"? That is precisely where your delusion arises. Nowhere does the forum suggest anything even remotely like that. Its an egoic mind construct all your own that few, if any, would agree with. This is what it says in case you've never read it. "This board is intended for anyone with a sincere interest in a spiritual path or teacher and is not limited to those interested in spiritual teachers reviewed at Spiritualteachers.org. Only members may post. Think of this place as a virtual ashram and consider these words by Richard Rose: "We need a spot on earth upon which to meet. A homing ground, but not an intellectual prison. A library and clubhouse of philosophers. A place with quiet rooms where a person can be alone if he desires. A clearinghouse of contacts, or a place where a cardfile might be kept with names of those who wish to be contacted.... Many people with philosophic drive feel no compulsion to mingle with anyone except their colleagues. But these people must be unaware of future growth opportunities for themselves, and they must be unaware that they must help others in order to grow themselves."Nope, doesn't say a single thing about truth at all costs. And I'm not really sure at this point precisely what you're belly-aching about here. I'm no longer on ST...and there's no laws against taking post content from one forum to comment upon it on another....the posts are considered 'public' once they are posted. If you think you're somehow going to convince me that civil response and discussion to posts that originated on a public forum is deeply, morally wrong and that in that, I'm going to stop doing what I'm doing, your operating under a huge misconception. Absent that, what is your point exactly....to simply shame me for the behaviors you deem to be wrong and intolerable? Such excuses, Such justications. Its almost like you really haven't a clue as to your own egoic mechanicians, the very thing you claim to be free from, and claim to want to free others from, right? It seems, however, that the doctor hasn't yet healed herself first. What is my point? Simple. I am here to exercise my right to free speech on a public forum, as an American born with the right to free speech. You got a problem with that? |
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And as DQ, you have long operated by specific rules. Its plain to see what those rules are. Expose the other's spiritual error or delusion, and be as unrelentling as it takes, to make the other see their error of their way or until their delusion breaks, at all costs, and without regard or respect for whether or not the other wishes to be so engaged or feels insulted or aggreived by your actions. Right?
Sure, I'll take that if that's what you're servin' up. 
(Don't worry...not my style, Ricky). 